VFD. XSY AT4 220v 1phase to 380v 3phase advice sort

[Martin of WickParticipant @martinofwick]

Andrew,

lashed up an arrangement with the AT4.

Voltage across the VR (5V to Com) was 5.1 volts

Potential on earth (PE to 220v mains incomer) 0.02V max

couldn't find my 10k pot but with 4.7k I get about 0 to 29 Hz across the range which is about right as I set the max frequency at 65Hz in the table.

James, it is always useful to see what parameters others are using in their set ups.

 

 

 

Edited By Martin of Wick on 25/05/2020 11:20:36

[Andrew FirmanParticipant @andrewfirman12129]

That’s interesting Dave because I get half max hz using a 10K pot.

My measured voltage across PE connected to mains earth is 3v. 10 times yours. I have an EMI filter on the mains input so will measure without it.

I tried uploading a MS Word doc of a table I’d prepared in Excel of all the “as supplied” parameters on my AT4s including those not covered by the manual but was unsuccessful because there are apparently too many characters. Can one upload a file?

[Martin of WickParticipant @martinofwick]

Further tests…. I am beginning to doubt my own sanity…Some apologies due.

Something Dave said made me think.. Managed to find a 25k pot to replace the 4.7 and set up Result Max Hz 31 !!! How could that be? I was expecting 0 to 65 Hz but controlled only over half span.

So looked at P73 setting and reduced it to manual setting of 31000 as a trial – low and behold the full range of 0 to 64 Hz restored.

So apologies for misinformation – Bad to rely on my memory, but I would have sworn when I tested months ago I had to have P73 at 61000 for full speed and left the parameter in that state for later installation, obviously I was not paying attention at the time.

Suffice to say, have a go with the info sheet values input in P73 and 74 and see what happens.

Rough running of motor – is that at low speed? sometimes too high a value in P72 torque compensation will cause 'cogging' of the motor.

 

 

Edited By Martin of Wick on 25/05/2020 11:49:19

[Martin of WickParticipant @martinofwick]

And just for further information,

If you set P73 at 31000, I think you may get the external pot to control between 0 to 65Hz (if you have set 65 in P06)

BUT when you switch back to panel control you will find that you can control the frequency OK (0 to 65) but only over half the span of the panel pot!

To restore full span control on the panel pot, you have to bring P73 back to 61000 and probably the source of my confusion – panel and external don't set up the same way on this device and the manufacturers supply on the assumption that the panel pot will be the primary control, but don't bother informing you of the parameter changes needed for external control.

[Andrew FirmanParticipant @andrewfirman12129]

Well done Martin (and Dave) 😊.

10K pot working properly and as you say changing back to panel pot results in full hz being achieved at 50% of setting with no further increase if one continues to 100%.

Now I can enjoy the rest of Bank holiday Monday! Though I’ve still to sort rough running on one of the vfds.

Thanks for your time in resolving this conundrum.

[James WalkerParticipant @jameswalker31828]

In case it is useful here are the values I am running on the key settings. Note – I did a factory reset of values so I will note only things that are different to the defaults per the VERY small manual. I also adjusted for a higher voltage curve to get the response I wanted out of my motors.

P01=60

P02=45

P03=2.5

P04=20

P06=60

P07=15 (this is per recommendations I have found as these style VFDs do perform poorloy under 15Hz)

P10=2

P11=2

P20=60

P21=1420

P22=6 (this setting impacts the sinnging sound of the motor. The higher the setting the quieter it is as it goes out of juman hearing. However higher frequency is harder on insulation. So on old motors lower is safer, balanced with noise/annoyance factor)

I have factory defaults on P65 and on. This includes the settings for the external pot. But to explicit here are those values.

P73=31440

P74=2096

P75=1130

P76=9500

[James WalkerParticipant @jameswalker31828]

This is also a useful bit of info. These graphs show different torque curves based on how you set the mix of min/intermediate/max voltage and frequency. Max frequency on the graph is reference off P01 wit the others being P02 to P07.

[Andrew FirmanParticipant @andrewfirman12129]

Thanks James, very helpful.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Not had anything to do with your model, but on my Toshiba I was having motor troubles like you mention. It turned out to be the setting for the base frequency of the motor. Which is 50hz in this country, it was set to 60hz. Changed it to 50 & all was well again.

Steve.

[James WalkerParticipant @jameswalker31828]

Posted by Steviegtr on 26/05/2020 01:25:04:

Not had anything to do with your model, but on my Toshiba I was having motor troubles like you mention. It turned out to be the setting for the base frequency of the motor. Which is 50hz in this country, it was set to 60hz. Changed it to 50 & all was well again.

Steve.

This is a good point. I used 60Hz as my motors talk to a 50 and 60Hz rating (P01). This meant I could get full speed out of the motors and increase versatility. You can set max Hz (P06) higher than P01). However I believe the curve flat-lines after you exceed the reference set in P01. So while the frequency and thus speed of the motor will increase you do not also get the voltage increasing. It is all a balancing act.

[Andrew FirmanParticipant @andrewfirman12129]

James,

I tried using your P00 to P07 parameters but was unable to lower P03 below 4.0 so left all at the manual default settings. I changed P73 to P76 the manual defaults. Everything seems to work as it should except for the vibration when using Vfd#1.

I'm wondering whether we have the same versions of the AT4. Mine is version A03. I purchased mine in March 2019 and am only now getting round to checking them!

As mentioned before one of my AT4s (both setup with identical parameters) seems to cause a pronounced lowish frequency vibration. I've tried to illustrate in the linked videos

Video motor noise using different AT4s

at 50hz

#1Vdf ( noisy one) has a panel indicated current of 2.122 amps and clamp meter measured 1.32, 1.43 and 1.11 amps for W, V and U

#2Vdf has a panel indicated current of 1.985 amps and clamp meter measured 1.44, 1.51 and 1.50 amps for W, V and U

All measured currents are above the motor plate 1.26 amps rating. Should I be concerned about this?

Would the significantly unbalanced outputs currents on #1Vfd be the cause of the vibration? I guess there is no way of balancing the output currents?

[Martin of WickParticipant @martinofwick]

If it is of any comfort, my devices all bear that label, but I wouldn't set any great significance to that. I doubt the QA extends to identifying the numerous production variants. Once the box has left the factory, you are on your own and up the creek…. Just sayin!

Until you really know if you need to modify the torque curve, best keep it linear as per the defaults. Shovelling more amps and volts into the motor at its most vulnerable (reduced RPM) is a good way to shorten its life.

wouldn't worry to much about the indicated currents as long as the motor isn't overheating. I doubt this device samples or filters the values so you are seeing the peaks.

Strange that one of the phases is 20% out. If true, and happens on all motors, that is quite significant and could be a cause of rough running. Not encountered this problem before.

You could see if making small changes to the carrier frequency P22 on VFD1 makes any difference ( no more than + or – 5 from the default value of 10 in either direction). Beware that increasing the frequency significantly will increase the running temperature of the motor (but make it quieter as somebody has pointed out). And vice versa.

Sometimes you just have to fiddle and even that doesn't always do the trick!

Edited By Martin of Wick on 26/05/2020 18:26:11

[Andrew FirmanParticipant @andrewfirman12129]

I suppose a better way of determining the version would be to compare dates printed on the pcbs.

Reducing P22 from 10 to 6 but it didn’t seem to make an apparent difference to the vibration.

I was reluctant to go above 10 because not knowing the normal operating temp of the test motor. I was a little concerned about the motor casing temperatures I’d measured. Running at 50hz with no load for 10 minutes, the case temp increased from ambient 25c to 46C in 10 minutes. At which time I cut power to the motor and the temp continued to rise to 51C at 15 min before dropping to 44C at 29 mins after commencing the test.

I guess the next step for me is to complete the enclosures, control panels, wiring and fit to my new to me T S M1 and start making chips 😊

Thanks everyone who has contributed knowledge and advice.

[OneManEngineeringParticipant @onemanengineering]

Posted by Andrew Firman on 23/05/2020 13:32:14:

I have a couple of 2.2Kw XSY AT4 which I want to use to power a couple of 380V 3 phase star wired motors using 220v single phase supply.

I always thought the motor needs to be configured in DELTA otherwise you don’t get the full range!

 

Greg

Edited By Greg The Londoner on 02/08/2020 12:49:41

[OneManEngineeringParticipant @onemanengineering]

Also Can someone shed some light as to why I can not go over 220V in P000, where I should be able to reach 380V.

Ive got XSY-AT4 as well.

Is it a faulty item, or supposed to be this way?

 

 

Thanks, Greg

Edited By OneManEngineering on 02/08/2020 19:47:09

[Andrew FirmanParticipant @andrewfirman12129]

Greg,

Although the "manual" does not explain I believe P000 is the input voltage which should be left at 220V. That's what mine are set at and both 380 star configured motors run fine.

[James WalkerParticipant @jameswalker31828]

I always took P00 as being the max V that the unit could output. The reason being that P02 and P04 have a cap of either 220V or 380V which I believe is determined by P00. Anyway I have my P00 set at 380V and it is fed a 220-230V supply.

Also if you have settings that you cannot change you need to input the default "0" password into P09. i.e. jusrt go into param update mode, go to input mode on P09 and "set" the value to 0. This should unlock everything. Did for me.

Cheers,

James.

[Anonymous]

I can't see anywhere in the listing, or on the specification plate, where it says the output voltage is 380VAC phase to phase?

Andrew

[Andrew FirmanParticipant @andrewfirman12129]

Posted by Andrew Firman on 02/08/2020 20:12:59:

Greg,

Although the "manual" does not explain I believe P000 is the input voltage which should be left at 220V. That's what mine are set at and both 380 star configured motors run fine.

Sorry Greg, Senior moment!

James is correct . P000 on mine is set at 380V..

[Andrew FirmanParticipant @andrewfirman12129]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 02/08/2020 20:53:37:

I can't see anywhere in the listing, or on the specification plate, where it says the output voltage is 380VAC phase to phase?

Andrew

Andrew,

In the manual it states AT4 output phase to phase is 380v

[Anonymous]

Thanks; it's not that common to have single phase in and 380V 3-phase out. I'm surprised the listings don't make more of it.

Andrew

[OneManEngineeringParticipant @onemanengineering]

Posted by James Walker on 02/08/2020 20:45:55:

I always took P00 as being the max V that the unit could output. The reason being that P02 and P04 have a cap of either 220V or 380V which I believe is determined by P00. Anyway I have my P00 set at 380V and it is fed a 220-230V supply.

Also if you have settings that you cannot change you need to input the default "0" password into P09. i.e. jusrt go into param update mode, go to input mode on P09 and "set" the value to 0. This should unlock everything. Did for me.

Cheers,

James.

Ill try to enter the password and see if I can change P000.

This thing spins my motor up nicely, make no mistake about it, but unable to measure RPM.

BTW, my motor is in DELTA!.

[john fletcher 1Participant @johnfletcher1]

I have been reading with interest the threads relating to the the XSY inverter. Would a reader please tell me the make of the XSY 2.2 Kw inverter, could it be a Huanyang ? John

[OneManEngineeringParticipant @onemanengineering]

Posted by Andrew Firman on 02/08/2020 21:14:08:

Posted by Andrew Firman on 02/08/2020 20:12:59:

Sorry Greg, Senior moment!

James is correct . P000 on mine is set at 380V..

You're forgiven! I am getting there too.

[OneManEngineeringParticipant @onemanengineering]

Posted by john fletcher 1 on 03/08/2020 09:53:08:

I have been reading with interest the threads relating to the the XSY inverter. Would a reader please tell me the make of the XSY 2.2 Kw inverter, could it be a Huanyang ? John

It certainly isn't, but it looks to me that its a sort of copy. It works. I can recommend, but you need to learn the new Chin-glish language. At least my manual is written in that 😀

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