vehicle road worthiness tests

[Rod RenshawParticipant @rodrenshaw28584]

In the same vein as Michael’s thread about the weather , but on a wholly different subject I thought I would ask for members thoughts about the MOT ( UK compulsery annual check of vehicle roadworthness  ) Sorry this is not model engineering but it seems apppropriate for the tea room and perhaps of interest for many members.

Yesterday I took my 7 year old VW for its annual check, and it passed. The examiner recorded 2 “Advisory” comments.

1. The rear brake pads were 60 % worn. On the strength of this the girl on the front counter proposed to book the car in for new pads. I declined explaining that I drive only a few thousand miles a year, and that the pads were the originals so in 7 years I have worn away 60% of the pad. She was horrified when I suggested I thought I could get a few years more wear out of the pads as fitted. Apart from any cost considerations it seems wrong in this time of recycling etc to effectively throw something away when it still has nearly 40% of it’s life left. The girl seemed unable to distinguish between part worn pads and braking effectiveness. The front pads were recorded as 40% worn and the examiner made no comment about that.

2. The rear wheel springs were corroded. No percentage this time!. I reasoned that as the same examiner had not mentioned this at all last year the corrosion then must have been not visible or trivial, so it was unlikely to be particularly serious yet. I am getting too old to want to go about looking under cars, if the examiner thinks the car is good enough to pass, then that seems good enough for me. the cost of replacing the springs is eyewatering. Again the girl was not impressed, and this time there was no maths to assist my thinking.

So, I propose to ignore both advisories and look at the situation again next year.

What does the team think? Am I being properly careful with my money or reckless? Will a brake pad still be okay at 80% worn, or even 90% worn, where is the safe limit?

Rod

 

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Rod

Quite simply … Advisories are Advisories

Your vehicle has passed a Test, and you have been advised of some observations.

Whatever the young lady thought … any work is at your discretion, not hers.

MichaelG.

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P.S.  ___ regarding brake pad wear: It will depend to some extent upon the vehicle and your driving style … but I can tell you from personal experience [decades ago] that when the last thin layer of a pad lets go, it is quite scary !

Since that time, I have been very grateful for the presence of warning lights for pad wear, and always heed their warning.

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

I suspect that soem of these “advisories” are just generated to appease DVSA inspectors, to show that the testers have inspected the vehicle. I have had situations where an “advisory” was given one year, but the next test the same “advisory” was not there despite the particular supposed issue not having been addressed.

A couple of years ago my then employer asked me to have a look at his car which had been given an “advisory” for rear brake pads being 90% worn at the first MoT. First issue was getting the rear wheels off – they were corroded to the hubs & clearly had not been off the car since it was built. When the wheels were removed it was apparent that the rear pads were, at most, only 10% worn.

I am pretty certain that dealer service departments use this type of vague “advisory” situation to get the gullible to pay for work that does not require doing to meet their performance targets.

If the car passed, I would not be too concerned about ignoring the advisories. In my experience they may not be mentioned next year even if you do nothing – they will probably think of something else !

Nigel B.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Advisories are to promote work for the garage. My brother in law used to insist on taking his car (over 10 years old) to the main dealer for its MOT. Every year it came back with advisories, and he actually considered getting rid of it. I asked him to go back and see if the advisories he got in one year were still there the next year. Nope. Clearly these incipient faults had healed themselves. He now takes his car to a family run independent, no further issues. Test stations should not be allowed to do repairs, this would remove the temptation to exaggerate issues. I’d go further and have them government run, but perhaps recent government fiascos mean that perhaps isn’t too good an idea

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

I love the 10% left on your pads bit especially when you have 3mm left, I personally have never seen 30mm thick pads,Id be worried about how big the calipers were!. I quite agree that testing stations should not do or be affiliated to repair shops.

[KenLParticipant @kenl]

Four years ago I bought a two year old car from a main dealer.

Part of the deal was that they would provide free MOTs for the life of the car together with a dicounted serviceing charge.

I took them up in the offer when the first MOT was due and the car passed the MOT but two “advisories” were noted.

The first was that two tyres were “damaged on the sidewalls”, even though the (very minor) tyre damage had existed when they sold the car to me and the second “excess wear in the brake pedal linkage”. I requested that the MOT technician point out where the excess wear was located but he declined to do so. After the resulting discord I then took the car to my usual MOT station, showed them the test certificate and asked them to do the job again. They passed it without any advisories.

Afterwards I spoke to the MOT tester who said that he was unable to detect any wear whatsoever in the brake pedal linkage and that the tyre damage was to the “guard bands” and did not affect the integrity of the tyre in any way. I should explain that the MOT service I usually use is part of a large tyre specialist company.

He was of the opinion that the main dealer offered the free MOTs as part of a guise to lure customers back to the garage in order that they could generate further business on the back of these “advisories”.

 

Conclusion – ignore any advisories unless you’ve established independently (or via your own common sense) that there may be a potential problem in the future.

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

Some years ago my daughter bought a smart car for her journeys to work…all motorway only 30 miles or so..at the first service after a year and only 5,000 miles she had taken it the Mercedes main dealer (smart dealers) to have it done. Upon collecting it (single female about 24 YO ) the service desk informed her that it needed new front brake discs and pads so they had fitted them as it was a safety issue..she rang me and relayed the story ( about £350 AIR) iasked her to put the service dept on the phone and quizzed the man as to why a new car with only 5000 miles needed new brakes..he was insistent that it was nessasary so i said I’ll be on my way down to insect the old ones…

before i had got my shoes on she was on the phone saying that they had made a mistake ……yes right…

[Alan JacksonParticipant @alanjackson47790]

I once went for an MOT test and the examiner questioned by saying ” you only did 600 miles last year”  I know I said  I am sorry, I got lost.

Ill get me coat,

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Can a garage really do an MOT in £55 worth of time?  If we had MOT only centres the cost would surely triple.

Rod

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

According to the AA the test takes about an hour. They need a bit of kit and a building, but that kit will be in constant use, so £55 doesn’t sound bad to me

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

I’m sure my mot station who only does mot’s has 1/2 hour appointments and generally it takes 20 mins testing and 5 paperwork and payment..

[duncan webster 1]

On duncan webster 1 Said:

According to the AA the test takes about an hour. They need a bit of kit and a building, but that kit will be in constant use, so £55 doesn’t sound bad to me

There are MOT only centres, but I think there’s a VOSA set maximum price. My local garage charges me £35, knowing that I’ll be doing any repairs.

As for the OP’s advisories; they’re handy things to know so further wear/damage can be monitored. Broken coil springs are a common problem on modern cars, and them rusting because the powder coating has failed is just one of the causes.

 

Other reasons for advisories are because the examiner isn’t allowed to dismantle anything to inspect it properly. Sill covers fitted is MOT speak for these are always rusted enough to fail, but aren’t visible.

No professional is afraid of their work being inspected by somebody competent and experienced, but that’s often not the case for DIYers. And the quality of a lot of DIY work, including inspections, leaves a lot to be desired.

[Martyn DuncumbParticipant @martynduncumb88863]

Our local council has run its own MOT testing station for at least 12 years and encouraged local car owners to have their vehicles tested by them. They do not do any repairs. The reason they gave is that they have all the councils vehicles to test and if they can have enough through put to cover all their costs they can carry on and maintain the service. If the operation costs them money, then it is in jeopardy. Any repair you might need, you arrange yourself, they will do the retest.

They have always been very clear about the results and in explaining anything that might be doubtful. My wife’s 19 year old VW Golf always passed (very low mileage) and was only disposed of because of the change in emissions legislation. Someone, somewhere outside London is most likely still a happy driver.

It takes away any nagging doubt of any genuine reason for a recommended repair.

I have always been very satisfied with them.

Martyn

 

 

[Alan Jackson]

On Alan Jackson Said:

I once went for an MOT test and the examiner questioned by saying ” you only did 600 miles last year”  I know I said  I am sorry, I got lost.

Ill get me coat,

My local garage man in Portsmouth, who I have been patronising for over twenty years and is utterly honest and reliable, told me that one of his elderly customers brought his car in for an MOT and it was only showing an extra 300 miles.  When they asked him if it was correct he thought a bit and said “I should think so, I’ve been to Winchester twice”.

The same garage gives me an advisory at each MOT for corroded brake pipes, and has done so for several years.  Each year they tell me they have daubed them with used engine oil and will let me know if they ever get any worse.

George

[KenL]

On KenL Said:

 

… the MOT service I usually use is part of a large tyre specialist company…

My daughter borrowed my car and had reason, I forget what, to take it to a large tyre company (no names, but it rhymes with Quick Fit) and they told her that two of the tyres were worn and needed to be replaced. She phoned me and I asked to speak to the tyre fitter, who told me that they were worn right down to 3 and 3.5 mm.  I asked if there was any reason why they would not pass an MOT test and he admitted there wasn’t.  I gave him my opinion of firms that take advantage of teenage girls and declined his kind offer to change them in exchange for money.  I should really have written to their head office but never did, so they’re probably still doing it.

George

[Oven ManParticipant @ovenman]

Are advisories recorded so that a tester can see was advised the previous year?

Peter

[Stuart Smith 5Participant @stuartsmith5]

Yes. Anyone can look at the mot history of a car ( including advisories). You just need the registration number.

https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history

Stuart

[Swarf MakerParticipant @swarfmaker85383]

Almost afraid to drive it away from the MOT testing station when I saw the advisory that the inside of the front bumper on my 23 year old Landrover Defender was showing signs of corrosion on the inner face of the front bumper.

I guess that if I don’t do something about it I may need to face up to its replacement in around 20-30 years time.

Probably around the time that it needs its third replacement chassis!

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Many years ago a chap who worked on my team took his car to a well known tyre and exhaust outfit for a new tyre. The fitter insisted that he needed a new exhaust. Didn’t look too bad to my colleague, so he asked for the manager to have a look. He confirmed the exhaust needed to be changed, so away they went. I’d love to have seen the look on the manager’s face when my colleague produced the receipt for the exhaust which the same outfit had fitted less than 12 months previously. Always keep your receipts

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

With a good part of my working life having been spent interpreting ‘Weasel Words’ … I would just mention the [convenient?] ambiguity of ‘Advisory’

My belief is that the intention was for the word to simply mean that the tester was advising the client of something they had noticed, but which which did not constitute a failure at the time of testing.

It is a small, but potentially lucrative, leap to interpret it as meaning “you are advised to get that done”

Advice from other ‘expert’ sources may be honourable expressions of concern, or not … but the MOT test is passed or failed at a moment in time.

MichaelG.

.

Edit: __ Here’s some light background-reading:

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/mot-manuals-and-special-notices

[James AlfordParticipant @jamesalford67616]

In defence of a local garage here. We usually use a local tyre and exhaust centre for MOTs and they are always fair and reasonable, never pushing for unnecessary work: even tyres and exhausts.

My son’s VW Polo GTI had been laid up for a year or so and went there for its MOT. They advised that it had failed the emissions test due to being laid up and being stone cold. They offered to pour in injector cleaner and take the car for a ten mile run to get it properly warmed up. They did this, retested and passed it. Additional cost: bottle of injector cleaner only.

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

I think the main problem with MOT centres adding random “advisories” to the test results arises from the fact that most MOT test centres are part of garages.

Here, in France, we have the MOT equivalent (Control Technique) required at two yearly intervals.  The test centres are independent and do nothing other than the test.  The cost is fixed at 80 euros, so £34/year.  The certificate has advisories marked but they make no financial gain my noting them.

Russell

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Best not to take the test at big chains that do repairs. 15% is a fail and I suspect the 30% is an advisory. Though personally I have had friction pads not bought by me peeling off the backing plate with more left than that. I don’t buy economy brake parts.

According to this        

[John ATTLEEParticipant @johnattlee20632]

Dear All,

I am more into vehicles, both heavy and light, rather than Model Engineering.  I am on the forum for the machining chit chat etc.  I admire the quality of contributions and the wide range of knowledge behind them.

I think that advisories are very good but bent MOT stations are not.  Bent because of the problems noted or bent because some will issue a ‘trade friendly’ MOT without any advisories.

On the rusty coil springs, that will be what DVSA call for.  I always get advisories for that.

On my last MOT on my Discovery, I had advisories for a swivel ball joint on the front axle.  Just a little bit of play.  I have now got the parts in stock and can plan to do the job at a convenient time.  Likewise, the rear props shaft rubber doughnut.  In stock and waiting to be fitted.

 

It is quite useful reading the history of the advisories especially with a S/H car and mysteriously they have disappeared but it is clear that no relevant repairs have been undertaken.

John

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Many years ago, we took over ownership of my late Father’s Metro car. The front brakes (discs) had poor ‘efficiency’ and although they passed the MOT, it took extreme pedal pressure to effect a sensible stopping distance.  The pads were not badly worn, but had ‘hardened’ over their lifetime of probably 15 years.  We replaced the pads and normal braking was restored.

From this, I don’t think that there is a MOT measured relationship between pedal pressure and braking efficiency.

Bob

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