VAT on eBooks

[VicParticipant @vic]

If you read eBooks you may like to sign this petition and share it with your email friends to have the VAT removed.

**LINK**

[VicParticipant @vic]

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

The entire system came down hard on the ecommerce industry a few years ago and they used the VAT system as a sledgehammer to crack a nut

All the little guys were seriously affected

If you sold 48,000 dollars in the UK you were ok

If you sold 47,999 in the UK and 1.00 to a dude in France you triggered a massive bureaucratic VAT machine

(It was something like that)

The VAT policy isn't about common sense, it never was, it's about keeping the little guys out of the ecommerce industry. You could  go global from your bedroom with a basic server and sell up to 80k VAT free

Anyway, GL

Edited By Ady1 on 17/01/2019 16:00:38

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

As I read most of my books on an e-reader I signed the petition. That makes 12 of us apparently – bit of a way to go to the 10,000 mark

John

[egaParticipant @ega]

13 with mine.

I believe that printed books are zero-rated rather than exempt; let's hope that the government response is not to level up! In any event, the VAT on ebooks is imposed by EU law.

Edited By ega on 17/01/2019 16:57:58

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by ega on 17/01/2019 16:57:44:

13 with mine.

I believe that printed books are zero-rated rather than exempt; let's hope that the government response is not to level up! In any event, the VAT on ebooks is imposed by EU law.

Edited By ega on 17/01/2019 16:57:58

False News!

Actually I October 2018 the EU voted to allow member states to apply flexible VAT on e-books so the UK government could make them zero-rated if it wanted.

The difficulties Ady alludes to are because France has chosen to drop the rate of VAT on e-books.

The petition should be to get the UK to reduce it like France and Turkey.

Neil

 

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 17/01/2019 18:01:37

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

If the tax yield from VAT is reduced, something else will be raised to make up the difference, They will get you either way!

[Barnaby WildeParticipant @barnabywilde70941]

I'll be controversial & admit that I no longer pay £money for media of any description. Whether it be audio or visual, I have embraced the true spirit of the internets.

I have over 3gb of eBooks on my cloud & thanks to this approach I have gone from spending £5-£10 a month on books & mags to spending over £50 a month. Work that one out.

Authors of written work need to take a long & serious look at what's happened to the music industry & how it currently earns it's revenue, because the days of easy money are well & truly over.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Mick Charity on 17/01/2019 20:13:07:

I'll be controversial & admit that I no longer pay £money for media of any description. Whether it be audio or visual, I have embraced the true spirit of the internets.

I have over 3gb of eBooks on my cloud & thanks to this approach I have gone from spending £5-£10 a month on books & mags to spending over £50 a month. Work that one out.

Authors of written work need to take a long & serious look at what's happened to the music industry & how it currently earns it's revenue, because the days of easy money are well & truly over.

Well if everyone follows your example, I take you last point and I might as well pack my bags now…

Neil

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Not much charity there Mick, authors have to eat too.

[Barnaby WildeParticipant @barnabywilde70941]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 17/01/2019 21:08:45:

Well if everyone follows your example, I take you last point and I might as well pack my bags now…

Neil

I didn't pioneer this approach, merely embraced it. Traditional revenue channels are fast disappearing & unless new channels are explored & exploited then the day will soon come when the traditional business model fails.

[egaParticipant @ega]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 17/01/2019 18:00:37:

Posted by ega on 17/01/2019 16:57:44:

13 with mine.

I believe that printed books are zero-rated rather than exempt; let's hope that the government response is not to level up! In any event, the VAT on ebooks is imposed by EU law.

Edited By ega on 17/01/2019 16:57:58

False News!

Actually I October 2018 the EU voted to allow member states to apply flexible VAT on e-books so the UK government could make them zero-rated if it wanted.

The difficulties Ady alludes to are because France has chosen to drop the rate of VAT on e-books.

The petition should be to get the UK to reduce it like France and Turkey.

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 17/01/2019 18:01:37

Neil:

Thank you for drawing this welcome development (which I had missed) to my attention; I suppose that "false news" is slightly less reprehensible than "fake news"!

I gather that the relevant Directive is 2018/1713 of 6 November 2018 which came into force as recently as 4 December and it is perhaps not surprising that there is no obvious mention on the gov.uk website. Ebooks are now on the same footing as printed books and, as you say, the UK could choose to reduce the rate of tax; in fairness, this should be zero. Whatever rate is applied will still be "imposed by EU law".

I agree that the petition is badly drafted but the principle is worth supporting.

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Now that everyone is a content creator, paying for and taxing the written word could be seen as a strange concept.

Martin.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Mick Charity on 18/01/2019 04:59:36:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 17/01/2019 21:08:45:

Well if everyone follows your example, I take you last point and I might as well pack my bags now…

Neil

I didn't pioneer this approach, merely embraced it. Traditional revenue channels are fast disappearing & unless new channels are explored & exploited then the day will soon come when the traditional business model fails.

It's not just me who relies on that revenue to to put food on the table, and I'm sure that all the contributors to MEW who have benefited from being paid for the articles and use the forum welcome your embrace…

Seriously, it's a bit rich that you enjoy the forum we put up for free, knocking just about everything in sight while being proud of the fact you avoid paying to read magazines by exploiting less savoury aspects of the web.

Unfortunately when the traditional business model fails you will lose professionally produced magazines and along with everyone else.

Neil (A.K.A. Mr Grumpy)

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by ega on 18/01/2019 11:34:01:

… I gather that the relevant Directive is 2018/1713 of 6 November 2018 which came into force as recently as 4 December and it is perhaps not surprising that there is no obvious mention on the gov.uk website. …

.

Is this what you seek ?

**LINK**

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-vat-rules-if-you-supply-digital-services-to-private-consumers

MichaelG.

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

Unfortunately when the traditional business model fails you will lose professionally produced magazines and along with everyone else.

So where does Readly come in to the traditional periodical publishing business model, Neil ?

I don't mean that in a provocative way, just interested. Some of the larger publishing houses appear to support it (like Bauer & Archant for instance). Not just the latest issue available, but a couple of years worth of back issues for most titles as well – all for £8(ish) a month. MTM noticably absent at the moment, along with Mortons (motorcycle magazines), but this may change ?

I took out a trail subscrpition with their "Black Friday" deal of £1.99 for 2 months & will continue with it – I get to read most of the British & Continental motorcycle magazines I normally bought the odd issue of + have found others I didn't know about before. Plus the airgun & shooting mags I used to subscribe to & I have a had a brief look at some german ME mags – and there are thousands more to choose from.

Is this a way forward ? I would concede that the tablet reading experience is harder on the eyes than paper, but the ability to download issues to the tablet to read off line is very convenient & has it got me to read titles I had lapsed subscritions on, re-introduced me foreign magzines I used to buy ad hoc but dropped due to the cost, introduced titles that were otherwise unkown or unavailable or of insufficient direct interest to buy regularly.

It used to be bandied about that publishers made the bulk of their money from advertisers & that the cover price just covered the printing & distribution costs. I don't know if that is true or not, but if the goal is to get as many people to read the magazines to attract the advertisers, then a more modern distribution model like Readly may help save the day ?

Nigel B

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

No doubt we will end up adopting new models, but I very much doubt if a small share of £8 a month would offset the loss of subscription income. It's only going to work for titles with very wide appeal not specialist audiences.

Using this model for music has completely changed how bands make their money – unless they are really big they can only make real money from performances and merchandise rather than recordings. On the plus side, live music has been saved from its predicted demise at the turn of the century, but ticket and merch prices go up, up up…

I suppose the equivalent to performances for MEW and ME would be exhibitions, but I can't see us packing out the Albert Hall at £150 a ticket…

Neil

[egaParticipant @ega]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 18/01/2019 15:18:04:

Posted by ega on 18/01/2019 11:34:01:

… I gather that the relevant Directive is 2018/1713 of 6 November 2018 which came into force as recently as 4 December and it is perhaps not surprising that there is no obvious mention on the gov.uk website. …

.

Is this what you seek ?

**LINK**

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-vat-rules-if-you-supply-digital-services-to-private-consumers

MichaelG.

Quite possibly, and many thanks for the link which I have bookmarked for later perusal as the text is quite long. Did you have any particular "verse" in mind?

I note that these "place of supply" rules don't apply to the supply of physical books (my italics).

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

On the linked page, we find this:

To find out more about what is and is not a digital service read the explanatory notes and the annex on page 86 on the European Commission’s website.

Which, I think, satisfies your comment that there is 'no obvious mention'

Whether any of it is intelligble to we mere mortals is another matter !!

MichaelG.

[Barnaby WildeParticipant @barnabywilde70941]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 18/01/2019 14:37:55:

Unfortunately when the traditional business model fails you will lose professionally produced magazines and along with everyone else.

Neil (A.K.A. Mr Grumpy)

I don't miss skool, I won't miss you & I certainly won't miss the paper magazines. Perhaps, when I'm waiting my turn at my barbers . . .

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

No doubt we will end up adopting new models, but I very much doubt if a small share of £8 a month would offset the loss of subscription income. It's only going to work for titles with very wide appeal not specialist audiences.

Seems MTM do actually use a competitor subscription service to Readly – Magzter Gold – and ME and MEW are on it So this new model is working for them already ? I see from a quick look at the titles available on Magzter Gold that there are quite few publishers using both subscription services, so maybe MTM could be persuaded to join them & increase their readership ?

From what I can gather, Readly pay the publishers for issues read, so the publishers are not giving away their products FoC.

Nigel B

[Author]

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