Value opinions for used clarke CL500M

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Don't think that the Clarke CL 430, or CL500M are in the same league as the other machines, being an old design and limited compared to more modern machines. But this is just my opinion.

The Warco BH600 (or longer bed 900) Chester Craftsman, or my rarer bird Engineer's ToolRom BL12 – 24, all exceed your 26 mm bore Mandrel (38 mm – 5 MT ) Might fall within your spec and budget.

Have been superceded by gear head machines, so you are looking for a secondhand one, except the Craftsman, which is still on offer as a new machine, at £2,500 but Nil Stock,

Warco used to supply in Imperial or Metric form, the others are Metric, although the BL12 – 24 is dual dialled.

Basically all clones in different paint schemes.

300 mm swing, 450 mm in the removable gap, 600 mm centres 12 speeds including back gear.

Norton Box (About 40 combinations ) and PCF, 6" 3 jaw, 8" 4 jaw. Ability to cut Imperial or Metric threads (The idler is a 120 /127 compound, with only two changegears to cover all the claimed range. Actually, I have deliberately, AND accidentally, cut others outside the claimed ones )

Standard motor for the BL12-24 is single phase 2 hp.

HTH

Howard

[Bill DawesParticipant @billdawes]

I bought a new 500M some while ago, served my purpose for a few years and gave me a milling head which, if limited, was useful. Now uograded to a Warco 290V which I love, powered feeds and variable speed so useful, a lot more money of course.

Sold my 500M for about £500 which after about 5 years use was not a bad deal.

At the end of the day it comes down to what you want in terms of features and quality versus what you can afford.

Unless you have an unlimited budget most things we buy are a compromise between features and quality.

I remember seeing a Myford at a ME exhibition, probably the last before they went bust, and was quite shocked at the price, about £13k if I remember correctly, about 4 times what I paid for my Warco, very nice quality but fairly basic by todays standards. On that score surprised they haven't been reintroduced as a made in china job by the people that bought them.

Bill D.

[Stuart Cox 3Participant @stuartcox3]

Posted by Bill Dawes on 22/12/2020 17:34:26:

I bought a new 500M some while ago, served my purpose for a few years and gave me a milling head which, if limited, was useful. Now uograded to a Warco 290V which I love, powered feeds and variable speed so useful, a lot more money of course.

Sold my 500M for about £500 which after about 5 years use was not a bad deal.

At the end of the day it comes down to what you want in terms of features and quality versus what you can afford.

Unless you have an unlimited budget most things we buy are a compromise between features and quality.

I remember seeing a Myford at a ME exhibition, probably the last before they went bust, and was quite shocked at the price, about £13k if I remember correctly, about 4 times what I paid for my Warco, very nice quality but fairly basic by todays standards. On that score surprised they haven't been reintroduced as a made in china job by the people that bought them.

Bill D.

Thanks Bill

[Stuart Cox 3Participant @stuartcox3]

Ok, update!

After careful consideration and quite a few weeks of research and confusion, I have bought the Clarke CL500M for now to get me started, as mentioned I have never owned or used a lathe before so I figure I will use it to learn on with a view to upgrading in the near future and selling it on, by which time I'm hoping I will have a better understanding of what I actually need from a lathe.

I know its a basic machine and a lot of you will shudder at the thought of owning/using one, but I am happy with my reasoning and look forward to learning a new skill.

I would like to thank everyone for their advice it all has been much appreciated and all comments taken on board!

Thank you

Stu

[john halfpennyParticipant @johnhalfpenny52803]

Your first job will be to adjust the gibs, and take up backlash on screws at the split nuts. Then align the tailstock. Be sure to lock off the unused axes when turning. Plenty of advice on here if you get stuck. If you decide the steadies are superfluous, please pm me.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

 

An advanced search for sold (tick the sold box) cl500 on Ebay throws up a lot of these. One went for 450 in september, the rest are 800 to a 1000 with one at 2000 exactly the same prices as Boxfords and ML7's sell for.

 

But not yours yet 

 

Edited By Dave Halford on 22/12/2020 19:22:26

[Stuart Cox 3Participant @stuartcox3]

Posted by john halfpenny on 22/12/2020 18:56:36:

Your first job will be to adjust the gibs, and take up backlash on screws at the split nuts. Then align the tailstock. Be sure to lock off the unused axes when turning. Plenty of advice on here if you get stuck. If you decide the steadies are superfluous, please pm me.

Thanks for the advice John, once I have figured out how to get it from the back of my van, down my driveway, across the patio, over the small wooden bridge and then across the lawn to my workshop 🤔😬 and once in location I will be checking and adjusting the gibs, backlash, split nut screws etc.

It ran really well on viewing and seemed to cut nicely. I realise that now it has been moved and once relocated will need some checking/setting up. I intend to do a full strip down to check everything over thoroughly but also to get to know the machine.

Ref the steadies, at this point I have absolutely no idea if I will need them but be assured if I don't I will be in touch 😉

Stu

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

The milling head is easily removed, as is the tailstock and chuck. That should make it handleable by two people – there are four lifting handles on the casting for that. If they are not there, a couple of pieces of thick walled pipe or bar may well be able to be threaded across the machine?

Steadies (particularly the fixed one) will very likely be needed in the future. They also enhance the resale value.🙂

[Stuart Cox 3Participant @stuartcox3]

Posted by not done it yet on 22/12/2020 23:25:11:

The milling head is easily removed, as is the tailstock and chuck. That should make it handleable by two people – there are four lifting handles on the casting for that. If they are not there, a couple of pieces of thick walled pipe or bar may well be able to be threaded across the machine?

Steadies (particularly the fixed one) will very likely be needed in the future. They also enhance the resale value.🙂

Great idea, thanks 👍

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Stuart,

I bought mine second hand from a company I worked for, it was bought for light machining but never used, it had a few extras like steadies, face plate and four jaw chuck, it also came on its original stand, I moved from my van into my garage using an engine hoist, I've had it at least 15 years and used it for making and repairing my stationary engines and recently for making parts for fixtures on clocks.

Its more than accurate for my purposes and I dont see the need for upgrading it for something "better", I'm currently about to start fitting a new motor and a VFD as its slow speed is a bit quick, as suggested adjust your gib strips but first replace your grup screw for longer ones so that you can fit half nuts to lock the screws in place.

I have never used the mill only because I have a mill drill and small horizontal mill in working order.

I've made several things on the machine and happy with its accuracy and finish, I never put anything on display here as none of it runs on steam and is shiny

Martin P

[Stuart Cox 3Participant @stuartcox3]

Posted by martin perman on 23/12/2020 09:37:26:

Stuart,

I bought mine second hand from a company I worked for, it was bought for light machining but never used, it had a few extras like steadies, face plate and four jaw chuck, it also came on its original stand, I moved from my van into my garage using an engine hoist, I've had it at least 15 years and used it for making and repairing my stationary engines and recently for making parts for fixtures on clocks.

Its more than accurate for my purposes and I dont see the need for upgrading it for something "better", I'm currently about to start fitting a new motor and a VFD as its slow speed is a bit quick, as suggested adjust your gib strips but first replace your grup screw for longer ones so that you can fit half nuts to lock the screws in place.

I have never used the mill only because I have a mill drill and small horizontal mill in working order.

I've made several things on the machine and happy with its accuracy and finish, I never put anything on display here as none of it runs on steam and is shiny

Martin P

Thanks Martin, that's encouraging. I managed to strip alot of it down and myself and a friend managed to lift it down to my workshop. I have looked at the variable speed motor conversions and might consider the mod if I like and get on with the lathe

Stu

[Stuart Cox 3Participant @stuartcox3]

Posted by martin perman on 23/12/2020 09:37:26:

Stuart,

I bought mine second hand from a company I worked for, it was bought for light machining but never used, it had a few extras like steadies, face plate and four jaw chuck, it also came on its original stand, I moved from my van into my garage using an engine hoist, I've had it at least 15 years and used it for making and repairing my stationary engines and recently for making parts for fixtures on clocks.

Its more than accurate for my purposes and I dont see the need for upgrading it for something "better", I'm currently about to start fitting a new motor and a VFD as its slow speed is a bit quick, as suggested adjust your gib strips but first replace your grup screw for longer ones so that you can fit half nuts to lock the screws in place.

I have never used the mill only because I have a mill drill and small horizontal mill in working order.

I've made several things on the machine and happy with its accuracy and finish, I never put anything on display here as none of it runs on steam and is shiny

Martin P

Thanks Martin, that's encouraging. I managed to strip alot of it down and myself and a friend managed to lift it down to my workshop. I have looked at the variable speed motor conversions and might consider the mod if I like and get on with the lathe

Stu

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

FWIW, it seems that a 4 Jaw independent chuck, from Machine Mart is expensive. There are other ways of fitting such a beast to the lathe, and other places to buy one, at lower cost. You will eventually find the need for one!

See other threads on here, and search suppliers such as Arc Euro, Warco, Chester, Chronos for their offerings. But you will need to make / machine a backplate to suit, or you MIGHT get away with adding three extra holes to the flange on the machine.

Although it will cost a little space, a backplate may be the better route.

Since you say that you are new to lathe ownership, don't be afraid to ask questions and for advice.

Where are you located ? Once the shackles are off, in UK anyway, it may be possible for someone to visit and advise / demonstrate face to face.

At that same happy time, if possible find and join a local Model Engineering club. There you will find others who will, at various times, support, enthuse, advise, demonstrate or dissuade you (Select as required! )

You now have equipment to do all sorts of things that were out of reach /impossible. You will be able repair worn /damaged items, possibly to a better state than before they came into your hands. And you will, be able to items for a specific purpose, so that previously impossible tasks become run of the mill (Possibly literally )

You are starting along a learning curve: seek advice from the more experienced, it will be readily available.

Some books will be invaluable aids in teaching basic principles and providing data. I have my favourites which are interrogated fairly regularly, for data and inspiration.

Good luck!

Howard

[Stuart Cox 3Participant @stuartcox3]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 23/12/2020 14:14:37:

FWIW, it seems that a 4 Jaw independent chuck, from Machine Mart is expensive. There are other ways of fitting such a beast to the lathe, and other places to buy one, at lower cost. You will eventually find the need for one!

See other threads on here, and search suppliers such as Arc Euro, Warco, Chester, Chronos for their offerings. But you will need to make / machine a backplate to suit, or you MIGHT get away with adding three extra holes to the flange on the machine.

Although it will cost a little space, a backplate may be the better route.

Since you say that you are new to lathe ownership, don't be afraid to ask questions and for advice.

Where are you located ? Once the shackles are off, in UK anyway, it may be possible for someone to visit and advise / demonstrate face to face.

At that same happy time, if possible find and join a local Model Engineering club. There you will find others who will, at various times, support, enthuse, advise, demonstrate or dissuade you (Select as required! )

You now have equipment to do all sorts of things that were out of reach /impossible. You will be able repair worn /damaged items, possibly to a better state than before they came into your hands. And you will, be able to items for a specific purpose, so that previously impossible tasks become run of the mill (Possibly literally )

You are starting along a learning curve: seek advice from the more experienced, it will be readily available.

Some books will be invaluable aids in teaching basic principles and providing data. I have my favourites which are interrogated fairly regularly, for data and inspiration.

Good luck!

Howard

Thanks Howard. I'm in Norfolk, we've just found out we are going in to Tier 4 after Christmas day so who knows when the shackles will be off!!

I will be looking in to sourcing a 4 jaw independent chuck so will take your advice and look for genuine Clarke alternatives. Although I don't have any lathe experience I do have plenty of metal fabrication experience so I'm not afraid to make adapters etc once I hone my lathe skills.

I have been reading Neil Wyatts lathework for beginners book which I have found useful.

I appreciate your reply.

Many thanks

Stu

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Hi Stuart!

Norfolk is a large county but at least one of the posters on here live there.

There is an active ME Club in Kings Lynn, and another in Norwich.

One of my former work colleagues, who contributed to Model Engineer, used to live in Heacham, and there is at least one other enthusiast not too far from there..

I am a member of what, until Covid came along, was the active club in Peterborough, so East Anglia does have Model Engineers.

(I bought my mini lathe secondhand from a chap in Sheringham )

Possibly, you won't find an a direct alternative to the Clarke 4 Jaw. But a 4 jaw independent and a backplate will almost certainly be cheaper. The backplate will need three holes to match those in the flange and then have four more holes, spaced away from the original three, for the 4 jaw.

The adaptor / backplate will need to be turned a to provide an accurate register on the flange, and be faced so that the adaptor sits snugly on the flange, and is "square" across the lathe. This will be one of the features controlling the accuracy of the chuck.

Once that is done, it can be fitted to the flange and the face turned to provide an accurate register for the chuck.

I would feel tempted to mark the flange indelibly (centre punch marks? ) so that the adaptor is always fitted onto the flange in the same place each time.

But DON'T raise any burrs on faces that will be used to locate the backplate / adaptor If you do, stone them off!

Then it is faced. In this way the chuck will be held "square" to the lathe axis, and the registers will hold the adaptor square and concentric and the other register will hold the chuck square and concentric.

FWIW get used to operating the lathe before you go in for high precision work of this sort. This classes as sprinting after you have learned the basics and can walk, let alone run.

HTH

Howard

[Bill DawesParticipant @billdawes]

Two grand for a second hand one? they are only about £1500 new at the moment, I paid about £1100 with stand for mine and they seemed to stay at that price for years.

Bill D.

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