Using Riffler Files – HOW>

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I had to fit a keyway last night, like many such I milled a semi-circular notch, shaped it by filing and then used riffler files to ease it to a snug fit on the key.

All well and good, but truth be told, I really struggle with riffler files. Just holding one without taking an eye out or slashing the back of my hand is a challenge. I knew some shapes are ideal for jobs like taking material off a small patch (as in relieving the middle of my keyway) but what do all the other shapes do?

Do you, like me have a couple of packets and odd singles of these strange instruments, most of which have never been used?

Or are you a riffler expert who can help me make the best use of them?

Neil

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Are you describing a hole for a woodruf key as semi circular or are you milling half the keyway down the side of a hole?

If the former than I'd ease the key if it did not fiot the slot, for the latter I'd broach or plane the keyway to a rectangular shape. If the keyway needed easing then probably reach for a pillar file or ones I have ground two safety edges on.

I tend to use rifflers to clean up odd shaped fabrications or things that have been cut from solid.

 

J

Edited By JasonB on 27/05/2014 14:49:44

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Easiest way to make a Woodruff key is just slice off a bit of round bar and cut/file to size. HT bolts are good for this. Should never need to file a keyway, except in emergency, ie. a crash. I have a few rifflers and similar small files but hardly ever use them, prefer the bigger the better.

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Well I read the thread title and had to jump straight in and have a look.

Like you Neil I bought some riffler files years ago with the thought that they were likely to "be useful some day".

So far that day has not come and, if it happens that today IS the day, then I haven't got a clue where I put them!

Norman

[HasBeanParticipant @hasbean]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 27/05/2014 14:30:00:

Do you, like me have a couple of packets and odd singles of these strange instruments, most of which have never been used?

Yes!

I have at least two packets of these. Tried to use one once, made a complete mess of the job, put it back in the drawer for 'future use'

Paul

[colin hawesParticipant @colinhawes85982]

Found them useful for making fabrications look like castings. Colin

[NobbyParticipant @nobby]

Hi Neil
Riffler files mould makers and toolmakers use this when finishing shaped moulds after inserts have been milled on a CNC mill etc . Early days when cavity inserts have been die sunk. Now with spark eroding cavity's are polished mainly using stone's of various grades . There is a system for putting a leather effect on moulds . but its a secret/ guarded proses. There is a type of handle you can use for holding these I will see if i can upload a photo
Nobby

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

So, a poor man's dremel

I'm interested to see your handle, Nobby.

I love this forum – I should never have mentioned keyways… no it isn't a woodruff key, I can make a cutter to mill woodruff keyseats easily enough. My 'Stan Bray'' keyway slotting tool is getting worn and the stress of cutting a 5mm keyway with it is too much for it now and it flexes so the inside of the keyway is too shallow. So instead a bit of handwork doesn't do anyone any harm, and if anything it's more satisfying when you get a nice slide on/off fit with no shake that way.

Neil

[ronan walshParticipant @ronanwalsh98054]

Personally i think riffler and needle files are worth their weight in gold. I do bits of gunsmithing work and the like and they are excellent for getting into hard to reach places. Watch the part 1 and 2 of the videos in the link below and you will riffler files being used to good effect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmsIdJ50wFU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

I used to use the double-ended type for die-sinking etc and don't recall any problems with the pointy ends. Usually you hold the business end with a finger or thumb on the file where it contacts the job and the curved "other end" against the heel of your hand.

If you get an awkward one, a bit of tape around the pointy end, or a bit of plastic or rubber tubing over it makes a good handle.

On the single ended Swiss needle files I use an old wine cork jammed on the tang as a handle. (Plenty of source materials to hand!)

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 27/05/2014 20:59:42:

So, a poor man's dremel

…

or vice-versa ?

Check the price of Vallorbe

MichaelG.

[mickParticipant @mick65121]

Nobby has it just about right, back when the world was young they were used mainly on mould and die tools, to file a local area without touching any of the surrounding metal. They come in a wide range of blade shapes and profiles, which allow the cutting face to be cantered over to reach awkward internal areas. I still have a good selection, which I now find useful to clean stubborn machining marks around CNC generated islands.

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

You have made my day Michael, if I sold my stock of Vallorbe and Grobet rifflers I would have enough wonga for a continental holiday. I have to admit that most are well used and not worth much now. But a usfull bit of kit that comes into its own now and again.

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Echo what Dusty said.

BH I have an unused set of three in container that I was selling for the Princely sum of R21.00 back in the '70s, plus two lots of assorted straight in plastic folders.

Geoff – Now I need to put prices on everything for the eventual day.

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

The only time I can actually remember using rifflers was way back in my younger days "improving" gas flow in the odd bike engine. The files would have been borrowed from the toolroom.Still got a 7/8"reamer from the same source, fits 490 norton little end bush.

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

Riffler files are also very much used even today in the custom gunsmithing trade. Mostly as one of the many tools used for getting in and removing excess wood while fitting the metal parts to the wood. It's a process much like hand scraping machine tools for fit and alignment. Larger diameter surgical tubing (the stretchy rubber type) can be used over the end of the file your not using for the double ended style. Good one's today are more than a bit expensive, so it's well worth protecting them. And excellent quality files of any kind are getting more than a bit tough to even find now. There not at all easy to replace. I'd be very suprised if they weren't used in at least some of the other specialty trades today. Pattern making, maybe very small one's for watch making etc.

Pete

[Boiler BriParticipant @boilerbri]

When I was 15 my dad bought me a BSA scooter to play in the fields with. The drive to the rear wheel was enclosed in a nice aluminium case. The drive shaft and sprocket was on a taper shaft with a small woodruff key. When I went over a bump the key used to shear off level with the shaft. I could dig it out and had to make a new key with whatever was to hand, usually a bit bed angle or such, which is surprisingly hard stuff, or it seemed it when I was 15.

happy days.

Brian

[GaryMParticipant @garym]

I used mine for the first time last week to clean up the S50 flywheel before painting. They worked a treat and were much more controllable than the Dremel would probably have been.

Gary

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

Rifflers? Very handy for mods to inlet and transfer ports on two-stroke engines, and for tidying up the insides of cast tubes in general.

Cheers, Tim

[colin hawesParticipant @colinhawes85982]

I have made "specials" by bending needle files at red heat and rehardening. Colin

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

After all that about Rifflers, I found 4 of them at the local second hand shop, new, unused, and $NZ3 each, so I got them for $NZ10, now all I have to do is find a use for them. There is an oval, pillar. round, and square. Made by Vellorbe. It was interesting seeing the price, nearly $NZ60 each!! Ian S C

[ronan walshParticipant @ronanwalsh98054]

Quality files of any size are expensive now ian. I bought a pack of 16 files for €30 during the week when they were on special offer in a local engineers suppliers, they are good enough for deburring etc, but nowhere near as good as the old stubbs or nicholson files.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

A good 10" file would be between $NZ15 and $NZ 20 each, but on occasions my second hand shop gets hold of a good file or two for $NZ 2, it doesn't sit on the shelf long, along with end mills, lathe tools etc. Ian S C

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