Ups and downs in the workshop

[clogsParticipant @clogs]

Hi all,

like John Reese all my machines, benches are on adjustable steel frames that a pallet truck just goes under for playing chess with the machines (cleaning or big jobs) including the Bridgeport mill (had to build a raised duck board for that)….

not much use in a shed type workshop I supose but ur next shed could be BIGGER and have a concrete floor……….

go on – do it, u know u want one………hahaha….

Clogs

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Hmmm. Maybe it about time I satrted thinking about some lifting tackle. My Union tool and Cutter Grinder finally made it home last week. It was a 'discard' from work about 12 years ago but only made it as far as my mates workshop as I didn't have space at the time. Finally got round to installing it in my workshop (we moved house). The first move I just picked it up after taking the table off. It hasn't half got heavier in 12 years.

Flicking through the manual it lists the machine at 190 lbs and the table cannot be more than 30lbs. Not sure I want to move it again !!

regards Martin

[colin hawesParticipant @colinhawes85982]

I am thinking about some sort of lifting device to handle a dividing head for my mill as I am not so young as I thought. I have a 7" centre height Drummond as well but I have fixed a shelf behind it for it's heavy chucks and can roll them onto a board placed on the bed at the right height to line up with the spindle thread. Colin

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

Like the idea of a scissor lift (versatile) but don't have the space around the machines. What I will do is attach an upright to the lathes (Colchester Triumph) pedestal with the lifting kit attached to it, I'll arrange matters so it can reach the mill as well.

A couple of further points,its been suggested that the hand powered trailer winch I'm going to use, good for 800kg, is meant for pulling, not lifting, so I should be careful. Whats the difference between pulling and lifting?

I like the of the eBay jib, but do not want to attach to the ceiling structure. I would assume all the necessary "strength" calculations have been done for the jib, if a design were to be published this would surely be necessary?

John

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Haha couldn't resist reposting this classic again. "Use 4 straps, not 2!"

Murray

[Keith LongParticipant @keithlong89920]

John MC – 2 things come to mind with your proposed winch.

1. Is the 800kg the "rolling load" that the winch is suitable for or the line pull? Trailer winches are often specified by the rolling load and the maximum line pull is usually about 1/3rd of that.

2. Trailer winches usually have a ratchet that only works in one direction – reeling in – so that when you are lowering the only thing stopping a run-away is your hand! Lifting winches are designed to be self sustaining, ie take your hand off the handle and the winch and load doesn't move.

If you look on the Indespension website – here – and follow through to the winch specs, you'll see that it states quite openly that the winches are not regarded as suitable for lifting applications.

On the same website have a look at the trailer "work" winches – here – these are quoted as being suitable for lifting applications as they have automatic ratchet mechanisms – higher cost though.

Edited By Keith Long on 11/09/2017 12:01:58

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Posted by John MC on 11/09/2017 11:40:38:

A couple of further points,its been suggested that the hand powered trailer winch I'm going to use, good for 800kg, is meant for pulling, not lifting, so I should be careful. Whats the difference between pulling and lifting?

When you stop pulling something it stops where it is unless on a slope when it needs to be treated as a lift. The problem is in the ratchet that may not be 100%, 99% is not enough. The problem is not in the lifting but in the letting down if there is only one ratchet. removable handles can slop off, if the ratchet is manually lifted off it mostly won't reengage in a runaway. Some lever operated come-alongs have a setting for lowering but mine can slip if not done slowly. Even the common Hi-lift or tractor jack which has a double ratchet is notorious for suddenly letting go on the way down if not handled carefully.

The type of hand winch you want, which are available, is a worm gear one which although more tedious to let down it is safe.

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

Some good points there, my trailer winch ratchets both ways and there is plenty of control so a gentle put down is easy, just tried it! Unlike the electric type in the OP's video. That seems to be the problem with the cheap end of the market, the better hoists have much more sensitive inching.

As for the difference between pulling and lifting, point well made and should be remembered. Not a concern here, I'll be lifting about 40kg maximum with something rated well in excess of that. My main concern was the capacity of the wire rope, its well in excess of the rated capacity.

There is a safety warning on the winch reminding me not to lift humans!

John

[John ReeseParticipant @johnreese12848]

Most hand winches suitable for lifting have a brake that requires they be cranked down. They do not free wheel. They are called brake winches in some catalogs.

A few years ago I bought a used Sky Hook.

http://www.skyhook.cc/skyhook_brochure_pdf.pdf

I thought I could set it up temporarily on my mill table or on the toolpost of my 13" lathe. It proved to be more work than just manhandling my vises, chucks, etc. onto the machines. I am thinking of mounting it to one end of my lift table and adding counterweight to the other so I could roll it around the shop

The Sky Hook literature shows a device for lifting chucks. Years ago I had a lifting device that instead of being clamped in the chuck it has a pair of forks that slid under the chuck.

I have an engine hoist but found it impractical at the lathe and mill. The legs that extend forward will not fit under my lathe. It also requires more floor space than I have.

My brother bought, at auction, a patient lift that looks like a scaled down engine hoist with a 300 lb. capacity. It is extremely useful in the shop and does not take much space.

https://www.specialtymedicalsupply.com/medical-equipment/patient-lifts-and-slings/manual-patient-lifts/

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I suggest looking behind you, while at the lathe. If you can put a steel shelving unit (robust one) there then a pole can go from that to a vertical behind the lathe. This avoids the stresses of an outstretched arm. Trolley system would allow the chuck to be stored at the same level on said shelves so it would only involve pushing over not raising and lowering.

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Might be a bit late in replying to Rik Shaw,but when I made my elevating barrow,I never thought how useful it would prove to be. Not only does it do all the heavy lifting around the shop,but it is ideal for lifting 45KG bags of coal from my van to my store,no way could I handle those now,those days are gone ! Also,when my nabour was replacing his built-in oven recently,it proved to be ideal for handling the unit,no pulling or pushing,no grunting or cussing,just a smooth lift all under control.

So,it might be well worth while building one,you will find a new use for it every day.

Regarding the hoist,I would be inclined to use a piece of heavy wall box section or a piece of small section RSJ for the upright,neither of them would be too dear and no way will they bend or flex under load.

Sorry if this post is a bit late,but this would be my approach to the problem,since my back is not much better.

[John ReeseParticipant @johnreese12848]

I have a scissor lift table that if great for getting vises, rotary tables, and dividing heads onto the mill. It s not much good for getting chucks on the lathe. I am considering the unistrut route to construct a small bridge crane that will cover the lathe and the mill. I do have a 500 lb rated electric hoist to use on the bridge.

[Colin HeseltineParticipant @colinheseltine48622]

I have one of the hydraulic lift tables and it works very well. Currently has a bench drill on it.. Which can be slid onto bench when required. Trouble is at present I tend to use the drill on the hydraulic table. I brought it to try and move my fly presses off the bench, but they are not the easiest/safest of things to slide around.

I have look at the Unistrut and was planning to use the 41mmx 41mm channel and one or two of the Unistrut wheeled saddles. Due to lack of roof height I was planning on bolting a length across a number of roof joists to spread the load and then fixing electric hoist on s wheeled carrier. Clearance height may well still be a problem.

I like the post and overarm solution but this would mean moving all my three phase distribution board and cabling to fix it to the wall.

Colin

[vintagengineerParticipant @vintagengineer]

When I used to work with big lathes (48" centre height) we used to fabricate U shape brckets that clamped in the chuck and allowed them to be lifted and slid onto the nose piece in the correct orientation.

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