Upgrading from a Clarke CL300M, where to go?

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Hi,

I was hoping the forum could help me choose a new lathe!

I have owned a Clarke CL300M Mini Lathe for about 10 years and it has done well.

For a while now I have been aware of its limitations from the workable area to the hassle of trying to part a piece and I feel its time to upgrade, the only thing is where to go..?

I definitely want a larger chuck and spindle bore along with a really sturdy machine so that it doesn't vibrate when performing such operations as parting off (making this on a mini lathe more hassle than it's worth). I'm also looking forward to a bigger toll post!

I've been looking at the Amadeal machines (AMABL210D) but am completely open to all and any suggestions.

I realise I'll need to buy new tooling etc. and I'm not fused by this. Budget isn't really an issue either.

Thanks in advance for your help!

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

For new machines, If it will do all that you want,a Sieg SC4 looks to be a good upgrade.

If you want something larger you may need to look at Gear Head machines.

If you are prepared to accept a used machine, a Warco BH600, Chester Craftsman, or rare bird, Engineers Tool Room BL12-24 (Look alikes) are versatile belt driven, 12 speed machines with a 5MT spindle bore, a Norton gearbox with 48 ratios with Back Gear..

Standard equipment with them were 3 & 4 jaw chucks, Faceplate and steadies.

They are heavy rigid machines, 300Kg

HTH

Howard

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Hi Howard,

Thanks for getting back at me.

I think the Sieg would be too little of a change but I do like the look at the Chester Craftsman.

I should have said I'm open to both new and used (my CL300M was used).

Cheers, Chris.

[Benedict WhiteParticipant @benedictwhite51126]

If you don't mind old, you could go for an Atlas 10 (I have one), a Southbend (better) or a Boxford.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Most of my work is for car parts, often in steel, so I found the CL300 limited in both size and material removal. I would have preferred a Craftsman or BH600, but it had to fit on a bench after being carried down some narrow cellar steps. That bench space was also limited, so I filled it with a WM250. I would have bought a 290 for the extra capacity if there was space for it.

The lathe immediately improved my productivity and work quality – parting-off under power is just one step forward. Things I like; the large for its size spindle bore, decent work envelope, variable speed(I wouldn't buy a machine without), quick chuck changes and low noise. The not so good; thread cutting still means faffing about with change wheels, while the machine is reasonably well made the detail finish could be better(trivial for a tool really), and most of the fasteners used are made from an engineering grade of cheese reminiscent of British Leyland. That last is easily fixed for a couple of quid as they're basic metric. After about five years use, I had to make new change gear studs and loctite the tailstock spindle back in place. While that was apart I spent a few minutes with a scraper knocking down the couple of high spots, which make it much nicer to use.

I transferred the Myford size Dickson QCTP to the new machine, and fitted the ER32 collet chuck to an adapter delivered with the lathe. I then sold the CL300 with both 3&4 jaw chucks, centres, both steadies(I've still never used a travelling steady) and the metric thread conversion for what I had originally paid for the lathe.

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

Boxford aud

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Hi Nick,

Thanks for your detailed response.

The Warco lathes sound interesting but they seemed to be priced higher than the Amadeal and Craftsman machines. The specifications seem quite similar so is this just an attempt to make them look better than other manufactures..?

I've also got a lot to sell with my CL300 which will make the purchase of a new lathe less of a dent on the old wallet.

Cheers, Chris.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

If I was ever to upgrade I would lean towards a big spindle bore

Some of the bigger hobby machines can do 38mm which is seriously useful

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Good advice is to buy the biggest lathe you can accommodate! Big lathes can do small work, but small lathes can't do big work.

Second-hand versus new boils down to your personal appetite for risk. Condition is king when buying second-hand – it is far more important than make or model. A worn out Dean Smith and Grace stored outside for 5 years and then dropped is no longer a DSG – it's scrap! So I would want to see a second-hand lathe cut metal before buying one, and understand what's needed to move and instal it. Also not smart to buy a second-hand imperial lathe for a metric-only workshop!

The advantage of buying new from a UK supplier is consumer protection applies, which protects your wallet in the event a lemon arrives, and the thing is delivered to your door by the seller.

New, I think, is better for inexperienced purchasers who want to plug in and go. Second-hand is better for experienced purchasers or those ready to deal with historical problems : not all second-hand equipment is 'pre-loved'. A booby trap with ex industrial equipment is the cost of spares. The lathes are sold cheap because CNC made them redundant; but spares are still full-price. Eye-watering! That said, CNC caused many ex-industrial and educational machines to be dumped in good condition – much better than hobbyists could afford in yesteryear.

Dave

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 30/09/2023 10:27:19

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I went Raglan MKII after a chinese lathe because I happened across a deal one day and loaded it onto my lorry. I then upgraded (at my leisure) to a Raglan 5 which does all I need in a very satisfactory manner. I shall not change again.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Ady1 on 30/09/2023 10:22:42:

If I was ever to upgrade I would lean towards a big spindle bore

Some of the bigger hobby machines can do 38mm which is seriously useful

Yes, I'm surprised at how often a bigger bore would make a job much easier. A big bore and a convenient way to screwcut(proper gearbox or ELS) would be the requirements after deciding what size machine I want.

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the advice regarding the bore size, that had actually been one of my concerns and the reason I quite liked the look of the Amadeal machines AMABL210D or AMABL250 (https://www.amadeal.co.uk/acatalog/AMABL210-Brushless-Lathe.html) and their prices seem quite fair.

I'm guessing the difference in price between the Amadeal and Cratfman machines is the addition of the DRO or are there other reasons why one would choose one band over the other?

Considering one of the big flaws of the CL300M is the timing belt and plastic gears (although I have upgraded these to metal) does a geared head offer better reliability?

Cheers, Chris.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

The motor power is not directly comparable

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Some vendors of seemingly equivalent lathes leave out say a steady or 4 jaw chuck or delivery is extra. Electronic speed control sounds more flexible than belt changing but often lacks low speed torque or overheats under the strain. electronics only last ten years and spares supply is questionable.
A number of the newer far eastern offerings claim a screwcutting gearbox but it is only few unrelated options rather than the systematic range of a Norton box.
I'm not a fan of the current offerings for ELS with all the button pushing and tiny screen. The old Norton box is just clunk clink and your there and it remembers what you set last time,

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

As Bazyle says Warco tend to include 3 & 4 Jaw chucks, fixed and travelling steadies, faceplate etc. Others including Amadeal only supply the 3-jaw so that can make several £100 difference. Then there can be differences that are not so easily seem such a scontrol boards, some make smay use American ones, other far eastern which may have lower grade components

As for screwcutting it really depends on how much you need it. I may only use it once a year so it was not a deciding factor when I bought my Warco 280 but if you feel you are going to do a lot then it may be higher up your list of wants

My prevous Emco was a geared head machine but I'm mor ethan happy with the variable speed I have now and would not want to back to having to keep stopping to change to one of th elimited range of speeds

Edited By JasonB on 01/10/2023 06:53:33

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

Just out of interest, do the 38mm bore lathes come with comparable chucks? ..most 125mm chucks seem to have a smaller bore size than this..

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The 290 machines come with 150mm chucks so no problem, not sure what the smaller 7x machines with big bore spindles have

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

I'd seen the 210 mentioned, so guess the point I was thinking about is that with the smaller lathes, 125mm chucks seem to pass 28/30/32mm as the norm so for practical purposes a 38mm spindle bore won't offer much advantage over a 26mm bore – to me, it wouldn't be a reason to buy the 210 over say, a 250. ..'course, space & budget allowing it'd better to have the best of both worlds and get an even bigger one

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Personally, I don’t see the point in anything much bigger than a 160mm chuck for most hobby-sized lathes. Taper roller bearings will obvious stand the loadings, but will the rest of it be up to it. I am happy with my 26mm spindle bore along with a fixed steady, on the occasions needed.

Some may be able to put up with short stubs, some may not (if making repetitive pieces, for instance), There is not really that much between 25mm and 38mm where the problem msy arise.

In other words, there is more than one way to ‘skin a cat’ as they say. Most hobbyists got by perfectly adequately, with the tiny spindle bore on the myfords, for half a century and more!

[Bob WorsleyParticipant @bobworsley31976]

One vitally important thing to have on a larger machine is some alternative method of holding the chuck than screwed on. Either the old L fitting on an old machine or Camlock now. Yes, chucks are more expensive but swapping the chuck in 2 minutes after machining some 3" bar is nice.

Yes, a 38mm spindle bore in my book is essential.

A Norton box is useful, for changing feed rates, scarcely use mine for threading.

A rear tool post for the parting off tool is also essential.

Never used a variable speed drive, just a gearbox, works fine in my experience and nothing electronic to go wrong.

A self extracting tail stock is worth lots of money, like a lever clamp to the bed. Amazes me that there are machines that use spanners for this.

[Michael CallaghanParticipant @michaelcallaghan68621]

I have a Colchester bantam which is night and day to the myford 7 I had before. Apart from the power feeds, parting off is almost a joy. And it was 50% cheaper than what I sold the myford for.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

That AMABL210D is only 65KG but has a 38mm spindle bore, 40cm between centres

Looks pretty ideal for someone with limited space

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Posted by Diogenes on 01/10/2023 07:11:39:

Just out of interest, do the 38mm bore lathes come with comparable chucks? ..most 125mm chucks seem to have a smaller bore size than this..

Now that is a very good point and one that annoys me no end.

[LathejackParticipant @lathejack]

Well lots of useful suggestions already, with lots of choice from either a new imported machine or an older used machine.

The Sieg C4 has already been mentioned, and I still think it might be one of the lathes worth considering.

Although you are upsizing, I am having to start downsizing, and have spent at least the last 15 years considering what machines to buy as the time approaches, and the Siege SC3 together with a Siege SC4 were the two lathes I have settled on.

I recently visited Arceurotrade to view and buy the SC3 and SC4. I had not previously managed to have a proper look at an SC4 lathe in the flesh. Well the Siege SC4 was certainly an impressive machine, I felt like my eyes were popping out of my head like a kid in a sweet shop. A very well made, solid and substantial lathe which looked a worthwhile step up from a mini lathe. Apart from the smaller spindle bore it has a comparable capacity with a similar swing but longer between centres to the AMA210 that you were considering. The SC4 also has the benefit of power feeds built into the apron giving power cross feed and longitudinal power feed, plus lots of Tee slots.

The helpful staff at Arc are straight talking with no nonsense, so would give good advice either way if you had any doubts.

I intended to run the new SC3 lathe in the living room on tiny parts, just to keep me mechanically occupied when I couldn't leave the house, and then buy an SC4 for the workshop, to replace my bigger Warco lathe, for use on the now rare occasions I can sneak into the workshop for the odd hour or two.

Things didn't go to plan unfortunately for me, and I don't think i will be able to buy the machines I want from Arc, but I still think there is enough of a step up from a C3 to the impressive SC4 to make it a worthwhile upgrade.

In fact I am sure someone on this forum has moved up from a Clarke C3 lathe and bought a C4 lathe, and is more than happy with no regrets, I think it may have been Niel Wyatt, not absolutely sure.

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