Upgrading from a Clarke CL300M – Follow Up

[Bazyle]

On Bazyle Said:

You hae the Craftsman MT3/5 the wrong way round. I don’t believe the price of No2.

Thanks for pointing that out – I did think it was odd when I was putting it.

Here is the add: https://www.amadeal.co.uk/acatalog/Amadeal-AMABL210D-8×16–LARGE-38mm-spindle-bore-AMA_LA_AMABL210DWE.html#SID=422

It has a large bore but the rest of the machine now seems a little weaker than it’s counterparts.

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

I agree. I still need to look very closely at what all the deals include / exclude etc. as I know for a fact that the Amadeal machines include more than is stated on their website.

[mgnbukParticipant @mgnbuk]

As I’ve only ever worked on a VS lathe is there a lot to learn regarding a GH lathe?

Don’t try to change gears with it running !

More seriously you will be unlikely to stop the spindle in the lower gears compared to a vari speed machine, where the drive may stall if you have a problem –  something will give first. Discounting losses, 0.75kw at 40 rpm equates to 178Nm at the spindle.

I will always remember an incident in the apprentice training school (Harrison L5s or 140s IIRC, so similar size to a GH600) when we were screwcutting. My friend Andy was on the next machine to me and,  hearing a groaning noise from his lathe, I looked across in time to see the whole toolpost & compound slide leaning in towards the workpiece, before a big bang & the groaning stopped. He had run the tool into the blind end of the thread on what was supposed to be the screw for a G clamp (no run-out groove) on a late pass. When the tool went against the full depth end of the thread the machine didn’t stop, he panicked and didn’t disengage the halfnuts or stop the spindle in time & the bang was the HSS tool letting go. He was lucky – the broken toolbit went past the side of his head & nicked the top of his ear. I can still visualise him just standing in front of the machine in a state of shock, with a trickle of blood running down the side of his head.

Otherwise you will always be compromising to some extent on speed, having only 12 steps to choose from & obviuosly adjusting speed on the fly can’t happen (which may be useful when facing large diameters to increase surface speed towards the center). On the upside, no expensive electronics to go bang at an inconvenient time, just a couple of switches & generic contactors. I like the saddle mounted spindle start lever, though that is mainly due to familiarity with this style of operation on the various Harrison lathes that were present where I worked – this can’t be knocked on accidently as the lever has to be moved sideways before being moved down (to start forwards) or up (to start reverse), but it just has to be moved back towards the centre position to stop. It falls readily to your right hand when operating the machine & just feels natural to use.

Good luck with your deliberations,

Nigel B.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

There’s a job with a 38mm spindle bore doing the rounds in recent years and stocked by various outlets

The same sort of price range as the Clarke 300 too

I would do my research first though, try and suss out the more decent suppliers and filter out the buyers who can’t fettle these machines

Best of all is getting your mitts on one for 30 minutes, you know what you’re looking for by now

GL

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

That Amadeal with a brushless motor looks interesting

The big weak point with these modern jobs is the mainboards, it would take more research to see if you get a decent one with it

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Hi Nigel,

Thanks for sharing this with me.

I have to say that I use my current lathe for other non lathing things (such as polishing) and the VS function was very useful for this.

I’ve been pottering around the internet and have come across the Bernardo lathes which seem interesting. They look very similar to the Warco, Chester and Amadeal offerings and at good prices (they are being sold through eBay and their headquarters are near Linz, Autria.). I have yet to explore the more intricate details but was wondering if you have come across them before?

This post / forum has been very useful so far helping me focus on what I want out of my next lathe and the requirements that are important to me.

Cheers, Chris.

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Thanks Ady,

Yeah, I will see if I can make it to some of the lathe suppliers but as some are abroad I’m not sure if that will be possible…

As I said to Nigel this process has really helped me refine what is important to me and I would rather pay more for something that is going to last longer and be more versatile.

Cheers, Chris.

P.S. Yeah the Amadeal 38mm bore looks good although after comparing the other specifications I feel it might be a little bit less sturdy than the others for what I will use it for. I’m looking forward to a real upgrade from what i’ve been used to and fingers crossed will make my life a whole lot easier!

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Bernardo are just another european supplier of the same basic far eastern machines, slight variaions in spec between all the suppliers

Looking at the Pro 550-125 which is a WM250V it will cost you more as they want £200 delivery but Warco includes delivery. You then need to allow another £200 or so for 4-jaw, steadies, faceplate etc that warco include in their price. Plus the ebay price is £115 more than Warco to start with!

Also think about what happens if there is a problem getting spares from Germany or worse still if it needs to go back.

Speed spec also varies some have it as the older 70rpm low speed others 30rpm. Bernardo don’t show any overlap between the two speed range sso that would mean a lot more belt changing as 380rpm as the lowest in the high range is rather fast

[Chris Edwards 1]

On Chris Edwards 1 Said:

I’m looking forward to a real upgrade from what i’ve been used to and fingers crossed will make my life a whole lot easier!

The Amadeal I believe is only 65Kg, so you’ve got versatility… but a proper upgrade from your Clark 300 needs mass and power

Sounds like you’ve probably outgrown the hobby end of the market and want a unit with some proper weight and grunt, like the old Boxfords, but modern

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Hi Jason,

Thanks for your post.

I was actually looking at the ‘Bernardo Lathe Profi 700 Top (including DRO)’ (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/145462810408?hash=item21de425728:g:RaAAAOSw6GJaAslI) which ticks most of my boxes.

I’m still delving into the finer details (including what extras are included) and have requested more information from the seller who to be fair so far has been very prompt to reply, I will see what he says…

It does concern me ordering from a foreign country and the speed ranges but as with everything there is going to be compromise, definitely one to sleep on!

Cheers, Chris.

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Hi Ady,

Yep, I think you’ve pretty much hit the nail on the head, i’ll need to keep searching!

Thanks for your help, Chris.

[Chris Edwards 1]

On Chris Edwards 1 Said:

Hi Jason,

Thanks for your post.

I was actually looking at the ‘Bernardo Lathe Profi 700 Top (including DRO)’ (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/145462810408?hash=item21de425728:g:RaAAAOSw6GJaAslI) which ticks most of my boxes.

 

Just in case you weren’t aware, Fricke Werkzeuge is a large seller of diverse products, including gardening equipment, bicycles, building materials, and even forklift trucks.

There may not be much specialised knowhow about lathes among their staff or warranty backup, even if their remote communication is excellent.

Their range of Bernardo/Weiss lathes is impressive, it has to be said, even if they probably don’t actually stock that big a selection themselves. If I lived in Lower Saxony I’d certainly pay them a visit. Not sure I’d want to risk buying from overseas though, however tempting the spec appears on paper. Then again, there are worse risks to take in life.

EtA:

Judging by their eBay feedback, they only appear to have sold one lathe through eBay in the last twelve months.

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Again does not look like the latest model that Bernardo show and list at 4,700 Euro, no mention of an inverter.

 

[Martin of WickParticipant @martinofwick]

‘It does concern me ordering from a foreign country…’

You need to carefully consider the capital at risk vs the relatively small benefit or saving you may or may not make. As it would seem that only a machine upward of 3K will meet your requirement, the saving vs risk ratio is small. Secondly, what are the shipping AND in particular the insurance costs? in the event of a an event, who will pay the return costs?

Now Little Blighty has flown the nest, you will find your consumer rights in the EU won’t be worth much either.

And assuming there is any aftermarket support, consider the additional cost to importing parts.

 

 

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

You may well get hit for import duty/vat if buying from abroad. It isn’t always obvious.

 

And if you have to send something back and get a replacement… it can take weeks and be a paperwork nightmare or you end up paying duty again.

[mgnbukParticipant @mgnbuk]

I am not sure that the Bernado lathes are Weiss, or not all of them anyway. The following is a copied section from a post I made seeking owner views on the Warco GH600 before I deceided to get one & details some of my “research” into who made it :

These machines seem to be available from several European sellers (Bernado Profi 600G, Pauilmot PM3700 as examples ) and the manufacturer would possibly be CJ Machinery. ( http://cjmachine.net/ProductsShow.asp?Probid=1707 ). Weiss do make gear head machines, but they appear to be different to the CJ machine (different spindle speeds & gearchange arrangements). YouTube videos about the Bernado & Paulimot machines noted above also appear to be largely positive. There do not appear to be any other UK sellers of Chinese gearhead machines of this size (250 – 280 swing) other than Warco.

I don’t see any advantage (but do see many disadvantages !) to buying from a European importer of Chinese produced machines post Brexit. Little seems different other than the colour chosen by the importer & what the importer chooses to include as standard equipment, though for the GH600 equivalent machines the European importers don’t appear to offer a single phase version. With the GH600, initially the Warco appears more expensive that the European options, but closer inspection of the various offerings shows that the Warco comes as a complete package with 3 & 4 jaw chucks, faceplate, fixed & travelling steadies & stand, but the European price is for the base machine only – add in everything they show as options to match the Warco spec & the price difference disappears.

Nigel B.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Yup

If you get something from the EU add 20% or get a shock when its too late

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

I agree with what has been said about buying outside the UK it can work out more expensive money which could be spent on some of the accessories that you may want in the future.

I can’t say much about the lathes you first mentioned to replace your clarkes lathe as I have no knowledge of them except one. As  total novice to metal bashing I brought the Warco 280v and it has done everything I wanted from it and at least has some of the things that some of the others do not supply as standard. The only thing I would have done different is to have had a DRO fitted when I first brought it

One thing I did look at was the sizes  that can be turned on it to suit my needs I did go for one larger than my requirments but have no regrets. Like many things in life there are times when a larger machine is needed but I will cross that bridge should that ever arise

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Thanks Bill,

I was a little aware of Fricke Werkzeuge and I think you are right, they won’t have specialised information on all the products they sell.

I’ve actually been in touch with Bernardo’s UK distributor as the machine does tick a number of my requirements to try and get a bit more information and am waiting to hear back from them. I’ll let you know what I find out.

Cheers, Chris.

 

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Hi Jason,

I think you are right. From the specification I’m pretty sure it is a version of this, just without the mill part: https://www.bernardo.at/en/metall/metallbearbeitung/drehmaschinen/bearbeitungszentren/proficenter-700-top-inkl-2-achs-digitalanzeige.html

 

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Hi Martin,

Very sound words!

I’ve actually been in touch with the UK distributor of this machine to see if I can purchase from them as that would afford me a little more protection.

I’m still considering all my options and have definitely not decided on anything yet.

Cheers, Chris.

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Hi jaCK,

Thanks for your post.

Yep, I have been looking into this.

As part of my business I deal with Europe suppliers quite a lot and since the UK left Europe things have been far more complicated.

In one bizarre occasion it was going to cost me more than the product was worth to return it (just over £300). They wanted to charge me a restocking fee and other things, it was just stupid. Luckily I managed to sell it in the UK to the Army but what a hassle!

Cheers, Chris.

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Hi Nigel,

Many thanks for the detailed post, you certainly did your homework!

I completely agree with you. What ever or who ever I buy from I will need to really make sure I know what I am getting. All these lathes come from pretty much the same place so it’s just working out what is important to me and which seller I feel most comfortable with and off course the colour – it’s got to match the work shop…

Cheers, Chris.

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Hi Ady,

Yeah, I know all about that!

I imported cymbals from the US just over a decade ago and I learnt about import tax the hard way!

Cheers, Chris.

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Hi Dalboy,

Again another good post making a valid point that was bought home to me earlier today.

I was milling some cymbal stands for a client on my new mill. Now what I was doing was pretty simply and a much smaller machine could have handled it but it was just so much easier with this machine as it felt so sturdy, rigid, precise and the DRO was ultra helpful!

This exercise really bought home to me that I want to pay the extra for something that will help me future proof my needs!

Now if my band saw blade hadn’t snapped half way through (I didn’t have a spare – ugh) it wouldn’t have taken me all afternoon to cut some very precise angles in steel tube by hand – I should have just got the plasma cutter and guides out!

Cheers, Chris.

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