UK Made Boilers

[Trevor JohnssonParticipant @trevorjohnsson18121]

Several of my acquaintances would like to buy the kits of traction engines supplied by Steam Traction World but are concerned about whether the boiler would comply with Australian Standards. We are currently building a 3" Atkinson Steam Truck and have had to modify the boiler design in order to comply with the AS Standards.

Can anyone advise what are the relevant British or European Standards that apply to boilers on 3" and 4" scale traction engines?

[Trevor JohnssonParticipant @trevorjohnsson18121]

Standards

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

BS2790 according to their site which is "Specification for Design and Manufacture of Shell Boilers of Welded Construction"

The Aussie code does specify certain construction methods, material sizes, stay spacing etc which may differ from how a boiler was designed but able to meet the BS requirements. For example I believe the Aussie code is not keen on girder stays but they would be an acceptable method of construction elsewhere.

 

 

Edited By JasonB on 31/07/2023 10:24:00

[DC31kParticipant @dc31k]

If you are thinking buying in quantity of more than one, it might help to find a definitive copy of the Standard that applies in Australia and send it to Steam Traction World for comment.

They would be well placed to say if their boilers comply. They could also identify any place they do not comply and suggest options for resolving the difficulty. They would be more likely to help on a multi-item order than a one-off.

The other option is to obtain a copy of BS2790 and send it to the relevant authority in Australia so that they might comment on if it is an acceptable alternative to the local standard or again identify specific items that need further attention.

If I put BS2790 into Google, the second link I see is a pdf copy of the standard, so you could do a 'compare and contrast' yourself in advance of any further action (i.e. the lawyer version where you do not ask any question to which you do not already know the answer).

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

If you intend to have the boiler certified under the Australian model code, it will be done thru a model club. Talk to their inspector about any problems with importing the boiler. Annual membership at our club in Sydney is $110 per year and boiler inspection and certification is free to members. Included in your membership is public liability insurance at associate club events and $2o,000 insurance on your engine when transporting away from your home.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

BS 2790 superceded BY BS EN 12953. If you have to buy a copy then going via the Irish standards authority is usually cheaper. It's a Euro standard, so same words, and often very similar to the previous BS.

I'd approach it the other way, ask the supplier if it complies with Aussy standards, then if it arrives and is non compliant you have a claim.

[DC31kParticipant @dc31k]

Posted by duncan webster on 31/07/2023 14:47:11:

BS 2790 superceded by BS EN 12953.

That kind of begs the question of why the boiler supplier is quoting a superceded standard on their website.

Is is easy to find out the last date BS2790 was valid?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Plate from another model boiler maker on a 2023 boiler also shows BS 2790

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

There are several references in the interweb to BS 2790 being superceded by BS EN 12953, but looking deeper, others say it is still current.

[Neil GreenawayParticipant @neilgreenaway71611]

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[Neil GreenawayParticipant @neilgreenaway71611]

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[BazParticipant @baz89810]

W.T.F. is all that.

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

someone has tried to post a binary image

[Trevor JohnssonParticipant @trevorjohnsson18121]

Thanks for all the input so far. I am a member of the Brisbane Bayside Steam Railway Society Inc and we (the Centenary Suburbs Men's Shed) already have the steel boiler from a 3" scale Allchin traction engine certified with them. Incidently, this unit with it's riding truck and rolling road is for sale so we can fund our next project.

We are also in the middle of constructing a 3" scale Atkinson Steam Truck with a vertical copper boiler which has just passed it's hydro test. Both the Boiler Inspector and the fabricator have kept in touch all through the build to make sure the relevant Australian code ( AMBSC Code Part 1 Issue 8-2012 Copper Boilers) has been complied with.

I know of three people who are considering buying kit models from Steam Traction World but they are concerned about whether the boilers will meet the Australian Standards. I have twice asked the Suppliers to advise what codes these boilers are built to but have not yet received a response and the only reference in their literature is in the 4" Burrell brochure and none of the others. One possible solution would be if Steam Traction World could supply boiler drawings for their models so they could be checked out against the Australian Standards. In the case of the Atkinson I bought the drawings from Reeves and then made the necessary modifications to comply.

My advice to prospective Australian purchases is that they would be unwise to proceed until the issue of the boiler design can be resolved.

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

Probably unlikely that a commercial business would give away a copy of their detail drawings. But if they build to the UK standard, should be able to give you that guarantee.

Also worth asking if they can manufacture to comply with our standards.

Talked to my boiler inspector today in Sydney who said that if it could be shown that it was made to the UK standard and it passed inspection and testing here that it could be passed. He also said that on one boiler that did have a manufacturing problem that did not completely comply, was only certified for an 80 psi ticket. So best to get an Aussie inspector to advise before placing an order.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Paul are you able to run commercially made boilers over 100psi with club inspection. I think they limit the WP to 100psi for home made but are the commercial steel ones covered at the higher pressures (around 180psi) or would that need an independant professional to do the inspections?

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

Our model clubs are insured under the Australian Miniature Boiler Safety Committee and inspectors can only certify boilers with a 100 psi working pressure even if they are commercially manufactured. Boilers have to be welded by or under the supervision of a qualified welder. I did all of the machining for mine but employed a qualified welder to do it.

Certifying higher pressure rated boilers has to be done by a commercial inspector and commercial insurance taken out which is expensive. You are also outside of the network of model clubs and more difficult to attend club rallies.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Thanks Paul, so Trevor would be really be better speaking to a commercial inspector rather than a club one as the larger scale steel boilers run higher pressures which really puts them outside the AMBSC code anyway so would not need to follow the construction guide lines in that code either.

That is what a lot of the UK traction Engine owners do anyway as a lot of club inspectors are really only happy testing copper boilers which they have the experience with.

Edited By JasonB on 01/08/2023 09:09:28

[Trevor JohnssonParticipant @trevorjohnsson18121]

If the boilers are made to BS 2790 there is a requirement under Section 7.0 to provide drawings, documents, data sheets and test certificates. If these were provided the boilers may be accepted although limited to 700 bar operation. Both of the ASBSC codes for boiler limit the operating pressure to 700 bar..

[Andrew JohnstonParticipant @andrewjohnston13878]

Posted by Trevor Johnsson on 01/08/2023 09:30:46:

Both of the ASBSC codes for boiler limit the operating pressure to 700 bar..

Really?

Andrew

[Martin Johnson 1Participant @martinjohnson1]

The standards applicable have been a fast moving target for some years now. I think BS2790 srill holds for FIRETUBE LOCOMOTIVE boilers. The BSEN offering is more for industrial multi pass and similar.

The other problem is material availability. You can specify all manner of EN steels, but purchasing them in the size and quantity you want with certification for high temperature boiler use……….well just try it and see.

The above comments are made on the basis of designing a BS 2790 boiler in recent years and getting it approved by a notified body.

How all that applies to an export to Oz is anybody's guess.

BTW is anybody else underwhelmed by the welding on that boiler shown in Jason's post?

Martin

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Hell of a lot better than my welding!

Whole boiler

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

This is a useful read HSE To me it all makes sense, and isn't unduly onerous. A decent size model traction engine boiler could cause a lot of damage if it went off.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

I thought it looked a bit clumbsy Martin. Noel.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

I just think he needs a bigger blowtorch to fix the leak.

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