UK consumer protection laws?

[FulmenParticipant @fulmen]

I’m aching for a DRO on the Bridgeport, but Norwegian prices are … prohibitive … to put it mildly. I’m looking down the barrel of a 14’000kr (1000pounds) bill, that’s just not happening right now. So I need to consider my options.

I can get them from China for 1/4 of that price, but warranty and returns will be uncertain at best.

So what about UK? I can get it from Chronos for half the price or so, what kind of rights do I get in addition to faster and cheaper shipping?

[howardbParticipant @howardb]

I bought my 2 axis dro kit from vevor.eu for my Warco mill here in France. It was on special offer at €120 + shipping for 1000 mm & 250 mm scales.

As I was going to have to shorten the 1000 mm scale, if I messed up it was only €120 down the drain, so I wasn’t that bothered.

It all turned up exactly as advertised, very well packed with an installation dimension diagram and instruction book in english.

I was impressed by the quality of the readout scales and the readout computer, and I’m not easily impressed.

Norway is not in the EU but it is part of the European Economic Area (EEA), which allows it to participate in the EU’s single market. This means Norway can trade with EU countries and follow some EU regulations without being a full member”  – Wiki.

Does this mean that you won’t have customs and vat hassle if you buy from vevor.eu?

If you buy from the UK you will presumably be shipping from a non-EU country to a country that is part of the EU so expect hassle and cost.

Edit – shortening DRO scales.

If you need to shorten a scale here is how a youtuber did it – when I shortened my scale I didn’t score it and snap it, I cut through the glass scale with a 50 mm dia diamond cutting disc in an air grinder, cleaned it up with a diamond needle file etc.

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

Enjoy;

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/contents

This popular company have a good reputation in the UK – have an ‘own brand’ at about half of Newall prices and supply overseas.

https://www.machine-dro.co.uk/collections/milling-kits-for-bridgeport-turret-mills

 

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

I cannot see that UK consumer rights apply to a customer in Norway but if you make a credit card purchase over £100 /1353 Knone in the UK the card company is jointly liable if things go wrong, not sure about Norway?

Obviously direct from China is worth a look as they are so cheap and can be good? Chronos is located a mile from me, they have been around a long time and should be receptive to any potential returns.

Tony

[Gerard O’TooleParticipant @gerardotoole60348]

You asked “what kind of rights do I get in addition to faster and cheaper shipping?”

From experience from Ireland, you will get consumer protection which is  equivalent to that in EU (or ETFA) countries.  Generally, you will need to return the goods to the UK in order to make a warranty claim but that might vary by vendor.  In the case of making a warranty claim, From Ireland ,and I assume other affected countries, you need to make declarations to customs when returning items in order to avoid the seller paying VAT and import duty and you paying again on repaired or replaced items. But obviously this will only arise if you have a problem.

Assuming that the rules importing into Norway are the same as any EU country, then you will pay VAT in Norway ( but not pay VAT in the UK ) on the cost of good and shipping. There will also be import duty if the goods are not made in the UK.

Considering the talk of trade tariffs right now, i would move quickly.

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

Here in the UK I had a faulty item from Chronos and they were very good in dealing with the problem. Separately, I purchased my 3 axis DRO from a UK based supplier on Ebay, no problems and much cheaper than most others apart from China. Ebay have a global shipping option for overseas buyers and also their buyer protection seems reasonable.

I wouldn’t place much faith in national legislation for international purchases.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Um, Fulman asks a difficult question!  I hope someone who voted to leave the EU can explain what the actual position in respect of exports from the UK is today.

UK Consumer Law does not protect foreign buyers.   (This is true of all countries:  domestic law and international treaty obligations are different.)

Fortunately, any exporter who hopes for repeat business is unlikely to stiff foreign customers.   Unfortunately, a percentage are bent, deliberately setting up fly-by-night companies to take money in exchange for inadequate goods, or not supply at all.   As everybody hates criminals they don’t last long, up to 6 months, but they can easily rebrand and pop-up again.   Much safer for Fulman to buy from an established UK supplier than an unknown.   And credit card purchases usually protect if it goes wrong, as do box shifters like Amazon, Vevor, Ebay, AliExpress etc.   (Read their Terms and Conditions).

Borders create a lot of extra paperwork and costs, which inhibits exporters and importers.   Some UK firms have stopped exporting due to the overheads and risks, and yet more damage has been done due to foreign importers choosing not deal with the UK for the same reason.  As Fulman is a private importer, that aspect only need worry him in that the product might arrive in Norway with heavy tax and handling charges to pay:  these extra costs are Norwegian, applied to any country with whom they do not have a trade deal.

Trade deals are horribly complicated, so don’t assume what applies in your country also applies to Norway!  Some examples:

• Mainland UK and Northern Ireland have a special customs arrangement.
• UK and Eire have a soft border dating back to creation of the Republic.
• UK and EU rules are largely the same apart from the border!   What happens at the border is a work in progress.
• By international agreement, developing countries have some special privileges when trading with the West.  In theory these end when the developing country reaches a certain level, but that’s murky.   The PRC is still considered to be ‘developing’, which is odd now China is the world’s largest economy.
• Before Brexit the UK mostly traded world-wide under a trade deal negotiated by the EU.  Leaving the EU obliged the UK to   renegotiate, with dozens of major players.   The result is many roll-over deals in which the UK agree the same terms and conditions as the EU, with more costs and paperwork.  Where a roll-over wasn’t possible, as with the US, the UK trades under WTO rules, likely modified somewhat country by country.   WTO is a basic default, not advantageous, so this area is also a work in progress.
• Norway has a special relationship with the EU, but not the UK now we’ve left the EU.  Unless someone has done a UK deal with EEA countries.  I don’t know!   I guess unlikely.

In practice, this means that although Fulman can probably buy from the UK, and the supplier will probably replace/refund faulty goods, the process is somewhat risky.   Not just warranty and returns, there’s the risk of customs and other charges.  Fulman mentioned “looking down the barrel of a 14’000kr” and he might ask why DROs are so expensive in Norway?   One likely reason is high local tax and costs.  These relate as much to the way Norway raises tax as to trade deals, and may not apply to private individuals below a certain value or gifts etc. In the UK the difficult to understand import/export rules can be looked up on the internet; is there a Norwegian equivalent?

Fulman’s question isn’t peculiar to Norway.  Brits hit similar issues when importing from the USA.   One answer is to holiday in the US and buy there, hand luggage.  Norway’s a big place, but could Fulman avoid tax by buying personally in Sweden, Finland or Denmark?

If I was Fulman I’d treat this as a gamble.   If the item arrives from the UK and just works and all the charges are less than 14000kr, that’s a win.   Worst case, a faulty DRO arrives with customs and handling charges taking the cost above 14000kr!   Everyone’s appetite for risk is different.   Have to say I have little sympathy with optimists who take big risks and then can’t cope when the worst happens.  Equally bad are the pessimists who take no risks at all!   Risk management is about balance, you have to think.

It’s the risk and hassle factor that determines whether or not I buy direct from abroad.   Below, say £50, the risk is low, so why not.  But above, say £500, the impact of a mishap is painful,   Instead, I buy via a local vendor, few surprises, and they sort out all the import and quality problems; low hassle!   Between £50 and £500 it’s a judgement call.  If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime…

Dave

 

[An OtherParticipant @another21905]

Originally from the UK, I have lived in Romania for over 20 years. When we first came here, we made the mistake of buying some stuff from the UK (still in the EU then), and we quickly learned not to. Although customs difficulties didn’t apply then, we had endless problems with couriers losing stuff, and some payments going astray.

Since the UK decided it could do better than the EU, things got worse – unexpected (and expensive) customs charges, and increasingly expensive postal/carriage charges.

3 or 4 years ago, I bought a DRO system from China, delivered in two weeks, no additional charges and cheaper than I could get it anywhere else. As regards returned items, I have done this several times, usually due to the item not being what I expected, and money has been returned with no hassle.

Nowadays I buy nothing from the UK – usually from EU or China – its just not worth the time and effort.

[Gerard O’TooleParticipant @gerardotoole60348]

Just to add, Fulmen, you mentioned a vendor who has a good reputation. Assuming you are happy with quality and price , etc. why not contact them and clarify their position regarding a faulty unit. I imagine they will have no problem replacing a unit that was faulty on delivery.

I have some experience buying tools and motorcycle parts from the UK, post Brexit. My advice would be to make enquiries in Norway as to the charges, VAT and import duty, that you can expect to pay and the cheapest method for you to make the payment. In Ireland, and I imagine most countries, the couriers are authorised to collect these charges but the courier will charge a fee for doing so. And you won’t have a choice at the point of delivery, they will hold your goods until you pay them. The fee charged here vary from less than €5 ( I think €3.50) to close to €50. You need to find out who the vendor uses to transport the goods and then find out what fee they will charge you to collect the vat and import duty. In the past I have had a vendor agree to change couriers in order to reduce a very large fee.

I assume the DRO is made in China and so import duty will apply. That will not apply if you buy directly from China or from another EU country.

[SillyOldDuffer]

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

UK Consumer Law does not protect foreign buyers.

Fair point. I assumed I will get the same basic rights as domestic customers, but we’re in a gray area that I won’t spend a lot of time sorting out.

Norway has excellent consumer protection, basically we get 5 years (for anything intended to last significantly longer than two years) warranty against faults, flaws or manufacturing defects. That’s usually enough for me to buy locally, but not if I can buy something three times over and still save money.

[Author]

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