Tuning

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Worth going just to see that.

Where is James May when you need him?

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 03/02/2017 19:49:46

[ronan walshParticipant @ronanwalsh98054]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 03/02/2017 18:17:32:

Well that had me on the edge of my seat!

Perhaps we should have a top challenge at MEX!

Who's up for it and can we make a spin-up machine?

Neil

There was another one where a turner had to drill a pencil lead with a .5mm hole. Can you imagine bbc or itv doing a show even remotely like that ? Too busy making programmes showing z-list "celebs" eating kangaroo testicals in the jungle.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Posted by Hopper on 03/02/2017 02:00:07:

Cheap junk, it'll never last, many said. Only 100,000 miles or so, it turns out.

A dispatch rider in the Uk got 852,000 miles out of a VFR 750 Honda, it did have a new engine at 440,000 though.

Mike

Edited By Mike Poole on 03/02/2017 21:52:11

[HacksawParticipant @hacksaw]

My k reg Mitsubishi Pajero turboD hasn't needed an oil change in 7 years ,but me Honda hrv does like to drink oil . So that hasn't needed a change either as i frequently top it up

[HacksawParticipant @hacksaw]

A bit off topic ..What do they "deck "engine blocks with, a mill or a surface grinder ?

I'd like an anvil refaced , but it's a hardened face ,and surface grinders …do they go 18" high. To be honest i cant see anyone with either machine wanting to put an anvil on it.

[RJWParticipant @rjw]

Posted by Hacksaw on 03/02/2017 22:33:41:

A bit off topic ..What do they "deck "engine blocks with, a mill or a surface grinder ?

I'd like an anvil refaced , but it's a hardened face ,and surface grinders …do they go 18" high. To be honest i cant see anyone with either machine wanting to put an anvil on it.

Surface grinders Hacksaw, shop around the engine reconditioning shops, they'll usually only refuse if you don't want to pay them.

John.

[DodParticipant @dod]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 03/02/2017 18:17:32:

Well that had me on the edge of my seat!

Perhaps we should have a top challenge at MEX!

Who's up for it and can we make a spin-up machine?

Neil

I volunteer to spin them up with the traditional bit of string but only if the contest is held within 10mile of my hoose

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by Dod on 03/02/2017 23:37:59:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 03/02/2017 18:17:32:

Well that had me on the edge of my seat!

Perhaps we should have a top challenge at MEX!

Who's up for it and can we make a spin-up machine?

Neil

I volunteer to spin them up with the traditional bit of string but only if the contest is held within 10mile of my hoose

Where are you going to get a bit of string 10 miles long?

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by Mike Poole on 03/02/2017 21:37:58:

Posted by Hopper on 03/02/2017 02:00:07:

Cheap junk, it'll never last, many said. Only 100,000 miles or so, it turns out.

A dispatch rider in the Uk got 852,000 miles out of a VFR 750 Honda, it did have a new engine at 440,000 though.

Mike

Edited By Mike Poole on 03/02/2017 21:52:11

Trigger got 15 years out of his broom !!

[DodParticipant @dod]

Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 04/02/2017 07:54:31:

Posted by Dod on 03/02/2017 23:37:59:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 03/02/2017 18:17:32:

Well that had me on the edge of my seat!

Perhaps we should have a top challenge at MEX!

Who's up for it and can we make a spin-up machine?

Neil

I volunteer to spin them up with the traditional bit of string but only if the contest is held within 10mile of my hoose

Where are you going to get a bit of string 10 miles long?

amazing how folks can twist a statement to get the wrong end of the stick.

That would depend on how long it was, I didn't say how long the string was to be, only the stipulated the area of the country for the competition,

think i'll stick tae ma ain wey o Doric spikkin sos abdy kens fit am on aboot

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Toby on 02/02/2017 19:52:39:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 02/02/2017 13:33:52:

 

I'd also venture to point out that 'upgrading and tweking' is not unique to imported lathes. Before the days of inexpensive far-Eastern machines, there were an awful lot of articles in Model Engineer on how to improve and fine-tune a Myford. We even ran three such articles in MEW recently.

Neil

I am with Neil on this. Not wanting to offend anyone but it does make my cry when people hold up the likes of myford as "good engineering". Nicely made perhaps, and well engineered for their time but nowadays good engineering means design for manufacture which means not needed experience and costly trades just to bolt a lathe together…….

t

Backtracking a little here I know, but being in the midst of renovating an ML7, it is pretty obvious there is a certain amount of mythology associated with the machine that is perhaps not justified, just like the Triumph and Norton bikes of the 1970s.

"The Rolls Royce of Lathes" I think not. They were not the finest of engineering, design, materials or processes available at the time. They were perhaps the most cost-effective, more likely. The bed is so flexible that twisting it into shape is actually Myford's recommended method of getting it sitting true. Headstock bearings are cheaper white metal, not the more expensive and better taper rollers. The use of die-cast "pot metal" throughout the machine is quite surprising. They can dress it up and call it Mazak, or Zamak, but it is still el cheapo zinc alloy made often from recycled scrap. And nowhere near as stout as the cast iron used in older traditional lathes. To wit, the pivot frame that holds the countershaft twisted a quarter inch out of shape by the belt tension over the years, thanks in part to poorly designed adjusters but largely to junk pot metal material. The same second-rate material is used for the apron, lead screw mounts, cross slide and topslide leadscrew brackets, half nuts, electric motor mounts and diecast aluminium in the motorising unit H frame, belt guards etc.

Other things are quite cheap on the ML7 too, such as the thin, rudimentary felt wiper on one end of the carriage only, none on the tailstock or its barrel, spindly 5/8 diameter leadscrew, 20DP back gears that are prone to shedding teeth compared with the 14DP used on Drummonds etc. And the flat bed, being easier and cheaper to manufacture on outdated machine tools, is prone to wear from swarf sitting on it and does not compare well after decades of use with the V ways on contemporaneous American machines such as the South Bend, or its Aussie clone the Hercus. In fact the whole Myford lathe does not compare well with those machines, with which I am more familiar.

Now, the Myford's more cost-effective (cheaper) materials and methods do the job OK , and the machine has certainly stood the test of time as the model engineer's standard, but are not the Rolls Royce of Lathes material. More the Morris Minor of Lathes: a good, basically sound machine but definitely built down to a price for the post-war mass market.

Edited By Hopper on 05/02/2017 06:12:21

[PackmuleParticipant @packmule]

Hi wolfie

Not always a good idea to mess with.

I had a Kawasaki KH250 which was ported "professionally" with all the usual's KN filters ,Micron expansions and converted to twin disc to cope with extra power. LOL

Top speed 80mph

Bob

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Mike Poole on 03/02/2017 21:37:58:

Posted by Hopper on 03/02/2017 02:00:07:

Cheap junk, it'll never last, many said. Only 100,000 miles or so, it turns out.

A dispatch rider in the Uk got 852,000 miles out of a VFR 750 Honda, it did have a new engine at 440,000 though.

Mike

Edited By Mike Poole on 03/02/2017 21:52:11

I've put about 40,000 KM on my VFR800 since I bought it new in 2001, so at that rate it will see me out!

[ronan walshParticipant @ronanwalsh98054]

I agree with packmule, dozens of highly skilled engineers got together and designed the engine, with best performance, best economy, best longevity in mind. Then you get some spotty youth coming along with a cheap set of tools deciding to do some "tuning". No wonder it normally ends in a slower bike, or a blow-up.

But to be fair i think modern cars and bikes are so good, this diy tuning is largely a thing of the past.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Hopper on 05/02/2017 06:09:31:

Posted by Toby on 02/02/2017 19:52:39:

I am with Neil on this. Not wanting to offend anyone but it does make my cry when people hold up the likes of myford as "good engineering". Nicely made perhaps, and well engineered for their time but nowadays good engineering means design for manufacture which means not needed experience and costly trades just to bolt a lathe together…….

t

Backtracking a little here I know, but being in the midst of renovating an ML7, it is pretty obvious there is a certain amount of mythology associated with the machine that is perhaps not justified, just like the Triumph and Norton bikes of the 1970s.

"The Rolls Royce of Lathes" I think not. They were not the finest of engineering, design, materials or processes available at the time. They were perhaps the most cost-effective, more likely. The bed is so flexible that twisting it into shape is actually Myford's recommended method of getting it sitting true. Headstock bearings are cheaper white metal, not the more expensive and better taper rollers. The use of die-cast "pot metal" throughout the machine is quite surprising. They can dress it up and call it Mazak, or Zamak, but it is still el cheapo zinc alloy made often from recycled scrap. And nowhere near as stout as the cast iron used in older traditional lathes. To wit, the pivot frame that holds the countershaft twisted a quarter inch out of shape by the belt tension over the years, thanks in part to poorly designed adjusters but largely to junk pot metal material. The same second-rate material is used for the apron, lead screw mounts, cross slide and topslide leadscrew brackets, half nuts, electric motor mounts and diecast aluminium in the motorising unit H frame, belt guards etc.

Other things are quite cheap on the ML7 too, such as the thin, rudimentary felt wiper on one end of the carriage only, none on the tailstock or its barrel, spindly 5/8 diameter leadscrew, 20DP back gears that are prone to shedding teeth compared with the 14DP used on Drummonds etc. And the flat bed, being easier and cheaper to manufacture on outdated machine tools, is prone to wear from swarf sitting on it and does not compare well after decades of use with the V ways on contemporaneous American machines such as the South Bend, or its Aussie clone the Hercus. In fact the whole Myford lathe does not compare well with those machines, with which I am more familiar.

Now, the Myford's more cost-effective (cheaper) materials and methods do the job OK , and the machine has certainly stood the test of time as the model engineer's standard, but are not the Rolls Royce of Lathes material. More the Morris Minor of Lathes: a good, basically sound machine but definitely built down to a price for the post-war mass market.

Edited By Hopper on 05/02/2017 06:12:21

Good heavens Hopper, what sacrilege.

I once posted a 1/5th of what you posted and got put on Chris Trice's hit list for 5 years.

I can only assume not many have read your post so I hope this reply bumps it back up.

John S. [ no moderators hat on and who has bough two brand new Myford's, direct from the factory in their time so one who has actually supported the factory ]

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by John Stevenson on 06/02/2017 20:29:23:

Posted by Hopper on 05/02/2017 06:09:31:

Posted by Toby on 02/02/2017 19:52:39:

I am with Neil on this. Not wanting to offend anyone but it does make my cry when people hold up the likes of myford as "good engineering". Nicely made perhaps, and well engineered for their time but nowadays good engineering means design for manufacture which means not needed experience and costly trades just to bolt a lathe together…….

t

Backtracking a little here I know, but being in the midst of renovating an ML7, it is pretty obvious there is a certain amount of mythology associated with the machine that is perhaps not justified, just like the Triumph and Norton bikes of the 1970s.

"The Rolls Royce of Lathes" I think not. They were not the finest of engineering, design, materials or processes available at the time. They were perhaps the most cost-effective, more likely. The bed is so flexible that twisting it into shape is actually Myford's recommended method of getting it sitting true. Headstock bearings are cheaper white metal, not the more expensive and better taper rollers. The use of die-cast "pot metal" throughout the machine is quite surprising. They can dress it up and call it Mazak, or Zamak, but it is still el cheapo zinc alloy made often from recycled scrap. And nowhere near as stout as the cast iron used in older traditional lathes. To wit, the pivot frame that holds the countershaft twisted a quarter inch out of shape by the belt tension over the years, thanks in part to poorly designed adjusters but largely to junk pot metal material. The same second-rate material is used for the apron, lead screw mounts, cross slide and topslide leadscrew brackets, half nuts, electric motor mounts and diecast aluminium in the motorising unit H frame, belt guards etc.

Other things are quite cheap on the ML7 too, such as the thin, rudimentary felt wiper on one end of the carriage only, none on the tailstock or its barrel, spindly 5/8 diameter leadscrew, 20DP back gears that are prone to shedding teeth compared with the 14DP used on Drummonds etc. And the flat bed, being easier and cheaper to manufacture on outdated machine tools, is prone to wear from swarf sitting on it and does not compare well after decades of use with the V ways on contemporaneous American machines such as the South Bend, or its Aussie clone the Hercus. In fact the whole Myford lathe does not compare well with those machines, with which I am more familiar.

Now, the Myford's more cost-effective (cheaper) materials and methods do the job OK , and the machine has certainly stood the test of time as the model engineer's standard, but are not the Rolls Royce of Lathes material. More the Morris Minor of Lathes: a good, basically sound machine but definitely built down to a price for the post-war mass market.

Edited By Hopper on 05/02/2017 06:12:21

Good heavens Hopper, what sacrilege.

I once posted a 1/5th of what you posted and got put on Chris Trice's hit list for 5 years.

I can only assume not many have read your post so I hope this reply bumps it back up.

John S. [ no moderators hat on and who has bough two brand new Myford's, direct from the factory in their time so one who has actually supported the factory ]

Well, as a long-time Drummond owner, there are some who might accuse me of being biased. (But they'd be wrong of course.) I like to think of the Drummond as the Brough Superior of lathes. Anyone who has ridden a 45-degree, 1,000cc V-twin with solid-mounted engine knows what I mean.

[Brian OldfordParticipant @brianoldford70365]

Posted by Hopper on 07/02/2017 12:37:32:. . . . . . . . I like to think of the Drummond as the Brough Superior of lathes. Anyone who has ridden a 45-degree, 1,000cc V-twin with solid-mounted engine knows what I mean.

One word comes to mind "Brutish".

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Hopper on 07/02/2017 12:37:32:

Well, as a long-time Drummond owner, there are some who might accuse me of being biased. (But they'd be wrong of course.) I like to think of the Drummond as the Brough Superior of lathes. Anyone who has ridden a 45-degree, 1,000cc V-twin with solid-mounted engine knows what I mean.

Does that make the Super Adept the 'butcher's bike'?

Neil

[John FlackParticipant @johnflack59079]

Brian O. Brought sups were 50 degrees if they came from N17(that's were the best were spawned)

[steveteeParticipant @stevetee]

In responce to packmule, some amatuer tuning is still possible . There was a young bloke near here who had a moped with a watercooled Minarelli 50cc engine . I was boring him with tales of how we used to tune old Bantams and Villiers engines by taking a couple of mm off the top of the exhaust port, cleaning up any burrs etc in the inlet and so on. We also looked and found a washer welded in the top of the exhaust pipe with about a 10mm hole in it when it was in place.

So first the washer came out and the next time I saw this young bloke he got me to follow his moped in my car to check the speed. I clocked him at 68mph in my car for about half a mile . Question , how long did the engine run before the piston melted?

6 years on he is a very well qualified motor engineer working as a responsible MOT tester, having learned a lot of lessons the hardest and probably best way.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 07/02/2017 15:16:34:

Posted by Hopper on 07/02/2017 12:37:32:

Well, as a long-time Drummond owner, there are some who might accuse me of being biased. (But they'd be wrong of course.) I like to think of the Drummond as the Brough Superior of lathes. Anyone who has ridden a 45-degree, 1,000cc V-twin with solid-mounted engine knows what I mean.

Does that make the Super Adept the 'butcher's bike'?

Neil

I think you've nailed it!

The Rolls Royce of Butcher's Bikes though.

Edited By Hopper on 07/02/2017 23:34:04

[John FlackParticipant @johnflack59079]

Summing up a variety of views on this post. We have rubbish management, with a rubbish workforce, presumably rubbish governments, possibly a rubbish electorate????? Houston we have a problem😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by John Flack on 08/02/2017 10:21:35:

Summing up a variety of views on this post. We have rubbish management, with a rubbish workforce, presumably rubbish governments, possibly a rubbish electorate????? Houston we have a problem😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

If you conclude that everyone is at fault. Was there really a fault in the first place? Are we just trying too hard to blame and label something?

Michael W

[TobyParticipant @toby]

I think we have some rubbish management and some rubbish workforce. Governments and electorates are (nearly) always rubbish

[Author]

Posts