treadle power

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

I am thinking of getting a new workshop building, without any power supplies. I have a generator but to cut running time and expense am thinking about treadle powered lathe. I know these used to be common but have only seen very small ones in use. My lathe is a chester DB8 belt drive, I will have no problem building the thing, countershafts etc. Just wondering if anyone has experiance of a lathe of this size with manual operation. Will it be possible ? Any ideas on flywheel mass ? etc. etc. I read somewhere the human body can produce about 1/10 HP, my electric motor is 3/4 HP but does not work that hard all the time. This is just a thinking exercise at the moment.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Sounds a great idea, Gordon.

It might be worth searching some of the "Alternative Technology" websites for design ideas.

If you fancy working the lathe sitting down, then something based around an exercise bike may be suitable.

[Hecklers: let's please skip the Armchair Engineer jokes.]

MichaelG.

.

Edit: Here is a useful place to start collecting ideas

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 04/06/2014 10:41:55

[Swarf, Mostly!Participant @swarfmostly]

Hi there, Gordon,

I suggest that (among other things) you browse that 'well-known auction site' and study the pictures. You might even encounter some usable kit close to your location.

A work colleague of mine, many years ago, used to support a charity that helped blokes with lower limb disorders. He (George) used to search for and help buy treadle-powered lathes that were loaned-out to the 'patients' for occupational therapy. 'If you don't use it – you lose it!'

He observed that pedalling a treadle lathe motivates the pedaller to learn how to sharpen their tools!

Best regards,

Swarf, Mostly!

[WALLACEParticipant @wallace]

Someone did an article on this very subject a couple of years ago in MEW with a Unimat lathe…

W.

Edited By WALLACE on 04/06/2014 13:54:05

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Any ideas on flywheel mass ?

The Drummond M series flywheel must weigh at least 150-200lbs, I reckon it's heavier than the lathe

[Keith LongParticipant @keithlong89920]

Ady is certainly in the right ball park with those figures, I've just checked the Drummond book for the round bed which I guess would have had a much lighter flywheel by the nature of the beast and found the following:-

Diameter of flywheel rim 21 inch

Diameter of steps on flywheel 16, 14 3/4, 13 1/2 inch

Weight of flywheel 100 lbs. (weight of lathe 105 lbs)

It looks as though there was NO intention to use the rim of the flywheel for a drive as the main spindle pulley had 3 steps and the flywheel has 3 steps in addition to the overall rim. Also it's not clear whether the weight given for the flywheel includes the pulley steps or not, but it appears to be one lump so I guess it does.

Generally the bigger the better for flywheels for smoothness and to cope with the glitches from turning, but the more momentum they have the harder it is for you to accelerate or brake them. One point to look out for – make sure that you can't get your toes caught under the treadle. If the flywheel is still turning and you get your toes trapped you might be looking at a trip to A&E and a plaster shoe for a bit. One way to avoid that is to have the "pitman" slotted so that it will only drive on the down stroke, the crank-pin on the flywheel being free to run up and down the slot when the flywheel is "free-wheeling" so that it doesn't drive the treadle.

Keith

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Got a Popular Mechanics article on a home made wood lathe with a 6' centre hight, the flywheel is 17" x 3'', and made of concrete.

In one of my "Amateur Mechanic & Work" Handbooks, The Drummond 3 1/2" centre Lathe (1902) Has a FW of 92lb. Ian S C

Edited By Ian S C on 04/06/2014 13:14:39

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Thanks for all that. I had an idea that .the f/wheel might be those sort of figures. does seem a lot to get moving but ok once cutting. A clutch or fast/loose pulley will be a good idea. I did muse about using a free-wheel drive and chain, this would help to stop toe chopping. Main prob will be building up my old leg muscles.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Apparently Bradley Wiggins can produce around 427 watts, or about half a horsepower.

So you should be able to treadle your lathe without resorting to chemical stimulants!

I've heard treadling is more better than you expect if you a have a big flywheel as long as you avoid long deep cuts.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Gordon W on 04/06/2014 14:05:58:

… I did muse about using a free-wheel drive and chain …

.

Years ago [probably late '40s, early '50s] there was an article in ME, where someone did that to drive a little grindstone unit … definitely worth considering.

MichaelG.

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

You may be able to adapt the drive on a bicycle to give you the free wheeling bit.

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

I think this may be still available –

The treadle plate was about somewhere – if it is of interest, PM me and I'll go and hunt down the bits. It's a Britannia with about 3-4inch centre height.

Steve

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Or there is this one on Homeworkshop

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Gordon,

I presume, from your first post, that you intend to Man-Power your existing Chester DB8

If so, it's worth looking at the Barnes for inspiration … Roughly the same size.

MichaelG.

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

50 years ago my neighbour owned a workshop set up by his father in victorian times and was never modernised, One of the lathes was around 6 inch centre height and was set up for treadle drive and line shaft drive, early lathes could be quite large in capacity but their spindles were small,very often solid and easily rotated.I asked how did their workers manage to treadle a six inch lathe,he replied that tredalling was used for small quick jobs where it was not worth getting the line shaft working though he said the treadle worked well and was easy to operate, perhaps if an operator complained they got the sack. none of the lathes had index collars on the cross slide screw,the screw had a square end to take a simple handle,operators worked to chalk marks,a steel rule and stiff joint calipers,that was skill, how different to modern times when folks cannot seem to be operate a machine unless it has digital readout .

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

Oh I forgot why bother with a treadle,why not use a old stationary engine like a Lister D steady 500 rpm with a large solid flywheel ideal for driving a lathe.

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Somebody will just have to go away and invent steam power, a nearby coal mine might come in handy as well.

Sorry Nigel, my post appeared just after yours, similar ideas just a few decades apart.

Edited By V8Eng on 04/06/2014 20:25:13

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

Posted by JasonB on 04/06/2014 19:17:58:

Or there is this one on Homeworkshop

Dad's got one of those, but he has a 1.5HP Motor strapped on the back, the treadle bits went maybe 50 years ago…

Steve

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

I hung on to my treadle because in Edinburgh a donkey goes faster than a car and once they ban electricity (after smoking alcohol cars and fatty foods) I'll be the core of a corporate explosion in manufacturing

Britain

The cradle of the industrial revolution and the crucible of the ecological stagnation

Edited By Ady1 on 05/06/2014 01:23:18

[Clive HaynesParticipant @clivehaynes74488]

I was given a treadle lathe many years ago when I was still at school and I found it impossible to do anything useful on it but the tools were probably blunt and I didn't know much then just thought I did. Have you considered low voltage and battery power?

Clive

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

How about a dog chasing a cat in wheel, should be fun. How many Hamsters to 1Hp?You could have overhead hamster cages, just give them a little prod now and then. Thinks, hamsters are nocturnal so you need some way to store the power.

dammit, I will just plug it in the mains.

Clive

[Sam StonesParticipant @samstones42903]

Gentlemen,

Around 1950 my father bought me a second hand treadle lathe. It was clearly for metal working, with top and cross slides, gears and a lead-screw. The flywheel was massive, but the flat belt either kept breaking or slipping off the pulleys. If you did manage to have your toe under the cast iron treadle, it was only the mass of the treadle which could clobber you. The linkage had been slotted for that very reason.

Unfortunately, the lathe was already knackered. The one-piece casting had split over the front bearing, and the three-jaw chuck was virtually useless.

Nevertheless, my school mate (a big lad who occasionally treadled for the headmaster), and I tried almost successfully to turn bits of wood in it.

Now here’s where you might find some additional benefit Gordon, the treadle pedal was wide enough for two.

For that extra tenth of a HP, you could invite a friend or SWAMBO to stamp on the pedal too.

Good luck,

Sam

[Raymond Sanderson 2Participant @raymondsanderson2]

You could always pinch the wife's old sewing machine treadle if she still has one ……..mine does as well as 2 electric ones.

Here's a link

There used to be Treadleit.com but after bringing up my link I am getting errors and no page a search didn't do much better. It was I believe an NZ based site with a world of info etc.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

It sounds like the sort of project where Constantinescues torque convertor could be useful

You get lots of torque for less power

The general principle seems to be… the faster you try and shove a weight back and forwards the more it resists the motion and the more energy you get transmitted to the secondary output shaft

a. is slow speed

b. is fast speed

c. is medium speed

Edited By Ady1 on 15/06/2014 03:05:56

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