Traction Engine (Electric)

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

I guess this maybe a daft question but has anyone built an electric powered model traction engine.

I know, I know it would probably be frowned upon by many but as people build electric loco,s I wondered if anyone had done the same with a traction engine.

Ron

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

I seem to recall Jan Eric Nystrom in Finland built one a few years ago. May have have some video of it on the "Live Steam" website (defunct now). A bit of googling might find some pics or video. J-E is a talented builder and a nice guy. He has has had recent steam build/new method articles in EIM too I think.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

I see no reason why not, a traction engine with an electric motor, say inside the "boiler", and a battery in the riding trailer.

Ian S C

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

Just found a video of J-E's engine, link below.

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 29/09/2018 16:31:38

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Thanks Ian and Jeff,

J-E,s engine I thought quite impressive, I think I recognised the motor which he had mounted on the top, its a 24 volt 500 watt scooter motor if I am correct.

Interesting..?

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Jeff, out of interest can you remember the scale of J-E,s engine, looking at the video would it be 2 inch, I,m not that familiar with traction engines so difficult to judge.

Ron

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Ron,

There have been a few over the years. Fellow from Portsmouth built a Showman's engine complete with smoke generator in the smoke box which used to be seen at rallies and gatherings in the South East. It was a freelance design around 3" scale but a reasonable representation considering the limited facilities employed to build it. That's the only traction engine I have seen, electric powered steam lorries are more common. There is a fellow selling lorries ready to run which are based on a mobility scooter chassis.

Paul.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Thanks Paul, I thought that a small number must have been built (most things have) but I have never seen one until Jeff posted the video.

I had decided on a class 22 loco as my next project but I am not so sure now and I am warming a bit towards a traction engine. I will need to do a fair bit of research as I know next to nothing about them, I will see what that throws up before I decide.

Ron

[JC54Participant @jc54]

I regularly display an electric powered "traction engine" that my late father built around 2000AD. It is 12v and will just pull you along. Due to ill health I now show the Threshing Drum and Elevator that he built. If any interest can try to upload pictures.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

John, I would like to see some pictures of your fathers traction engine plus the drum and elevator if you can post them. I do like looking at other peoples work.

Ron

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Posted by Ron Laden on 29/09/2018 20:01:57:

Thanks Paul, I thought that a small number must have been built (most things have) but I have never seen one until Jeff posted the video from Finland.

I had decided on a class 22 loco as my next project but I am not so sure now and I am warming a bit towards a traction engine. I will need to do a fair bit of research as I know next to nothing about them, I will see what that throws up before I decide.

Ron

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Could anyone tell me if the engine on J-E,s video looks to be a model of an actual engine or more of a homebrew.

IF I decided to build one and its only an if, I think a fairly basic engine would be best as a starter, I know some of the traction engines are quite complex machines. J-E,s model looks to be more of a basic design.

Ron

Edited By Ron Laden on 30/09/2018 11:26:01

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Clean at the point of use

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Posted by KWIL on 30/09/2018 11:28:50:

Clean at the point of use

???

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

Hi Ron, I don't know the scale of J-E's engine or what prototype he based it on. If you google his youtube channel there may be a contact address you could ask him directly on.

Re "Clean at point of use" – KWIL may be reminding us that with any electrical device, mains or battery powered, the power probably originally came from a generating station, which apart from wind or solar stations are large scale polluters (coal waste visibly so, with smoke and ash, nuclear much more toxic waste but it is generally less visible to the public and lower qty per kW than coal )

Although what that has to do with a few people building electric models and operating them a few hours a month I don't know. Not going to join in that debate at all.

Edited By Jeff Dayman on 30/09/2018 15:18:47

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Looks to be a 2" freelance engine, if you want something similar that is not too complex then a 2" Minnie would give the same sort of look.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Thanks Jeff, it looks like J-E powered his engine with a motor to test out the mechanics before converting it to steam or at least thats what the video footnote suggests.

Thanks Jason, I have looked at a lot of pictures of the Minnie it would seem that builders all had their own take on the design…a variation on a theme it would seem. Would I be correct in thinking your avatar is a Minnie.

Ron

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Yes but mine is the 1" version

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Very nice Jason, beautifully finished even down to the lining on the wheels.

[Nigel SellwoodParticipant @nigelsellwood78122]

This may be daft but I’ve been mulling over the idea of an electric-steam traction engine, based on a minnie. Considering modern power tools have compact batteries with reasonably long running time, I’m wondering about putting one of them inside the “firebox” and an electric element inside the boier. The whole mechanical parts of the engine would be standard minnie, running on steam. Has anyone tried anything like this?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Have a look at this recent thread about batteries to make steam

[Chris GunnParticipant @chrisgunn36534]

Ron, there are several 4" scale wooden/metal constructed traction engines about, driven by mobility scooter power trains, they look good, will pull a trailer and are clean at the point of use. At least one has been built to the Burrell drawings to my knowledge.

Chris Gunn

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Thanks Chris, I guessed that there would be electric traction engines around as most things have been electrified be it loco,s, traction engines, boats, r/c planes etc etc. I am still undecided as to whether I will have a go at one as my next project. I dare say I probably will at some point but a class 22 may well be what I design and build next.

Nigel, I love steam engines and whatever they power but apart from the basics I have very little understanding of all their workings. I also dont know much about heating water with battery power but my gut feeling tells me that you would need a lot of battery power, wouldnt gas be a more viable option…just a thought, I could well be wrong.

Ron

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

You are not wrong Ron, generating steam for model locomotives or traction engines using batteries as a power source is really not practical at this time. Maybe in future as batteries develop, but not today.

Now if you could devise a compact fusion or fission reactor for models, that might be a different story. Fuel and containment might be a bit of a problem though.

For now, gas or coal firing are probably still the most practical ways to generate steam in mobile models. High energy density in a low volume of fuel, and efficient heat transfer. Several companies have offered commercial steam boilers for stationary models that are mains electricity powered with a tubular element or cartridge heater. Trailing a high amperage power cord at a traction engine rally would likely be frowned on, and running mains power through the rails for an electric powered large scale steam locomotive boiler could be interesting if someone or some metal touched both rails….NOT suggesting this at all as something to try, just joking.

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