Towards a better looking angle plate

[MikeKParticipant @mikek40713]

I want to use this angle plate for bolting something to the cross-slide of my mini-lathe.  Purchased many years ago, but finally found a use for it…after finding it in the bottom of a drawer.

The backside where all the nuts and washers will go is quite rough and I’d like to neaten things up so that fixings don’t work loose.  (And to keep up appearances with Mrs. Bucket.)

I seek advice for doing this without destroying my tooling.  I can’t tell if the roughness is cast, or sand that’s been painted over.  Am I going to ruin my Dremel stones on this?

Mike

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

Your stones will wear out whenever you use them, they are replaceable items. Just get new ones.

It will be difficult to get a flat, machined type finish with a Dremel grinder. I have a similar angle plate and just use a flat washer to cover the rough rear side.

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

You might be better off with one of those “finger” belt sanders to get most of it smoother.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I fettle all of my model castings with the Dremel, it will remove any sand but I suspect yours is just the sand texture replicated in the iron.

I use this shape stone mostly which last well but if very hard may get a similar shaped carbide burr out.

 

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi MikeK,  don’t know why they put four slots in one side, as it doesn’t look very good for bolting down for the two outside ones that are nearly up to the webs. The first 3″ x 2″ angle plate I bought, wasn’t very even on the bolting side, and there was a large radius between the bolting slots and the webs, and bolting it down was a bit clumsy, so I cured mine by milling it, so as to make better room for nuts and washers.

Regards Nick.

[Nicholas Farr]

On Nicholas Farr Said:

Hi MikeK,  don’t know why they put four slots in one side…

The pattern of slots is copied from industrial angle plates. Two of mine have an identical pattern, but are rather bigger so one can just get a clamp in place.

Andrew

[Nicholas Farr]

On Nicholas Farr Said:

Hi MikeK,  don’t know why they put four slots in one side, as it doesn’t look very good for bolting down for the two outside ones

But does let you clamp a larger item to it due to more space betweens slots, If you use a tee nut and stud on the back then the proximity of the webs is not  a problem. I quite often use a teen not as it does not turn when you have one hand holding the work, one the clamps and the third holding the spanner

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Cleaned up the inner face on my adjust able angle plate with an end mill without problems. Was lucky that there was no sand or chilling

Howard

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, my biggest one is 6″ wide and only has three slots between the webs which gives better room for nuts and washers, and has had a number of large pieces attached to it without any problems of movement, and it hasn’t needed any fettling at all, but I’m not saying there is anything wrong with what JasonB has said, although making an exact copy of an industrial one, doesn’t always work very well on hobby machines.

Regards Nick

[MikeKParticipant @mikek40713]

Thanks for the replies, gents.

I can’t get a finger sander just yet (I do want one, though).

What I just noticed is that the four slots aren’t evenly spaced.  It probably should have been one for the reject pile.  I’ll make some simple T-nuts and ruin a couple Dremel stones today.

Mike

 

[VicParticipant @vic]

I had no option but to partially mill the webs on my angle plate. It has four slots and the end ones didn’t have enough room for nuts and washers. Hard to believe suppliers sell stuff like this.

[MikeKParticipant @mikek40713]

Yep, that’s how this one is…the end slots are right against the webs.  It would have been better for us (and easier for them to manufacture) if they would have just left the slots out for these small plates.

[MikeKParticipant @mikek40713]

I used the same stone Jason linked to above.  It’s just a nub now.  They definitely should be sold in three-packs like that.  My local option is 5 USD each.

Anyway…During manufacture they must have cast the plate, machined it, and then painted it without removing the iron dust.  So much crumbled off.  I gained a little room near the webs.

I still don’t want to risk a HSS end mill on this.  And my 1/2″ carbide insert end mill can only reach if I reduce collet engagement to 3/4″, which seems sketchy.  I may leave it as is.

Mike

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

A job for Black Wrinkle..

[MikeK]

On MikeK Said:

Thanks for the replies, gents.

I can’t get a finger sander just yet (I do want one, though).

What I just noticed is that the four slots aren’t evenly spaced.  It probably should have been one for the reject pile.  I’ll make some simple T-nuts and ruin a couple Dremel stones today.

Mike

 

Maybe not. Angle plates, like many lathe faceplates,  usually have cast-in slots, so they are not precision machined and may not necessarily be in exact positions. Patterns move around in the casting process, moulds distort, and castings distort.

Hence, T-nuts are usually not recommended. T-nuts are designed to fit in a machined T slot. Faceplates and angle plates with rough cast slots and uneven back surfaces work better with plain flat washers and nuts to grip on to the uneven surfaces and cock at an angle if one side is higher than the other. Plus you get to use the very ends of the slots which T nuts will not access.

A Dremel grinder seems rather small for such clean up work. Those expensive little grinding tips don’t last very long on a relatively larger job. If you don’t have a regular size die grinder (which most of us don’t) you can buy the regular size die grinder tips with the 1/4″ /6mm shanks and a stone from half to one inch diamater,  cheap enough and spin it in an electric drill. Most corded drills will spin fast enough for it to work ok for this type of clean up work.

There is a lot can be done too with abrasive flap wheels in the pistol drill, and others in fitted to 4″ angle grinder etc, although they wont get into sharp corners. For knocking out/off that congealed casting sand and iron dust, lot can be done too with a cold chisel or even a welder’s chipping hammer, or even just then end of a handy bit of steel bar ground to a bit of a point.

Don’t feel too bad about the poor quality of the finish on your angle plate. My mate bought a not-cheap mid-sized Chinese milling machine from a reputable supplier to industry and hobbyists that had the same: painted over casting sand and iron dust still stuck to the castings. Including INSIDE the gearbox. Now, that took some fettling — in the original sense of the word, as it happens.

While you are at it, run a try-square over your angle plates and make sure they are actually square. Not all are created equal and some could use a touch up with a fly cutter to make them truly square. That matters more than the state of the cast surfaces.

 

[Hopper]

On Hopper Said:

Hence, T-nuts are usually not recommended. T-nuts are designed to fit in a machined T slot. Faceplates and angle plates with rough cast slots and uneven back surfaces work better with plain flat washers and nuts to grip on to the uneven surfaces and cock at an angle if one side is higher than the other. Plus you get to use the very ends of the slots which T nuts will not access.

 

But there is not enough width for a nut and washer so better to be able to use most of the slot with a tee nut  than none at all with a nut and washer. Does not even need to be a tee nut you can make a narrow long one from flat bar, the main point is that it is narrow to miss the web

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

You  could make your tee nuts like this that would allow you to get closer to the end of the slots

[MikeKParticipant @mikek40713]

What Bernard shows is probably what I’ll make.  The only way I can bolt this particular angle plate to my mini-lathe cross-slide is to use the central slot with both bolts going through it to the cross-slide round-thingie that the top-slide mounts to.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Not much we can really do about it, but … does anyone agree with me that smaller slots would have been much more useful ?

MichaelG.

[MikeKParticipant @mikek40713]

Narrower?  Or shorter?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I’d rather have the versatility of the wider slots. Quite often I will fix the angle plate to the mill with M10 and then use M10, 8 or 6 to hold the work depending on what it is and what clamps etc fit best.

I also find my pair of webless angle plates more versatile as the backs are machined I can hold one leg in the vice or join two together in a “U” shape if needed.

[MikeK]

On MikeK Said:

Narrower?  Or shorter?

Narrower … M6 is usually plenty big enough for bolting to a plate that size.

MichaelG.

[MikeKParticipant @mikek40713]

Yeah, and I’ll be using M6 bolts to mount this plate to the cross-slide.

Also, I’m out of luck machining the inside faces.  After a trial setup, I need to pull the end mill mostly out of the collet with only 5/8″ of its 3″ length being held my the collet.  Seemed too risky.  I would also need to dismount my mini-mill vice which I am loathe to ever do.

Mike

 

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

I have both 6″ and 8″ fully machined Eclipse angle plates. Their slots are really out of proportion for their size as they are about 17mm wide at the machined face although casting draft reduces this to about 15mm. The slots are also extend too close to the fillet between the faces so large, say M12 or M14 bolts would not be able to get to the inner end of the long slots.

I use mostly 6, 8 and 10mm fixings and have accrued an assortment of washers and wide T nuts so the plates are used frequently, but the out of proportion aspect of the plates is mildly annoying. I am not averse to making modifications to manufactured/branded tooling even if newly purchased although on this angle plate I have just added two tapped holes on one edge but I cannot remember why now.

Like Jason I prefer the fully machined type of angle plate and the 4″ angle plate I bought at a show about 10 years ago has not been used although several times I have been tempted to take a hacksaw to it and remove the webs. I cannot imagine a machining set up where the strength given by the webs would be essential or beneficial.

If Mike K has milling facilities then he could make a silk purse of of his cows ear.

Ian P

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

You wil see my angle plates in use in just about every built thread I post and the vive comes on and off many times in a build but just to expand what I said last night

Two plates bolted together and to the table with M10 fixings as that is what fits the 12mm slot width of the mill’s table but M6 used to hold work to the plate. Bolted together in a U shape and the upper one angled to suit the job, the U shape is often more compact than the only option of “Z” with webbed plates so ideal for smaller hobby machines

Same job different setup again M10 to table and M6 to work. Note that the flat back without webs allows me to place G clamps anywhere I want if there is no may to use the slots.

 

Not sure I would have wanted to use just M6 fixings on a job like this . The M10 clamp sets also make good machinists jacks

[Author]

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