Tool post height

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Tool post height

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  • #553550
    brian jones 11
    Participant
      @brianjones11
      Posted by Howard Lewis on 10/07/2021 15:38:55:

      Re Carbide tip codes.

      There was a thread on here, not too long ago.

      Look through previous threads, or use the search facility.

      Howard

      Indeed I have been scrabbling around, but most of the links are to iso type tables (15 or so)

      what I wanted was to input the code and the app would spit out the decoded result.

      this could all be done on Xcel but I have so many dozens of unfinished little jobs I was hoping someone may have got there first

      OBTW one member wisely noted that referencing US mfg beware as they use imp units vs metric for rest of the world and the coding maybe different

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      #553558
      JasonB
      Moderator
        @jasonb

        6mm and 8mm are also readily available you could just buy those and not modify anything, a bit cheaper too. Look through this album of mine virtually all done with 6 & 8mm shank insert tooling.

        You may be surprized at what can be taken off with just a 6mm tool that happens to be in a QCTP with the overhang "problem" mentioned by others and all this on a far eastern machine. 1/4 depth of cut so 1/2" off diameter in one pass.

        Even a Myford will do similar, this is Rod's video who commented earlier that his toolpost works fine too.
         

        Edited By JasonB on 10/07/2021 16:15:58

        #553607
        Neil Wyatt
        Moderator
          @neilwyatt
          Posted by JasonB on 10/07/2021 16:10:55:

          6mm and 8mm are also readily available you could just buy those and not modify anything, a bit cheaper too. Look through this album of mine virtually all done with 6 & 8mm shank insert tooling.

          You may be surprized at what can be taken off with just a 6mm tool that happens to be in a QCTP with the overhang "problem" mentioned by others and all this on a far eastern machine. 1/4 depth of cut so 1/2" off diameter in one pass.

          Even a Myford will do similar, this is Rod's video who commented earlier that his toolpost works fine too.

          Edited By JasonB on 10/07/2021 16:15:58

          Says it all really

          #553610
          brian jones 11
          Participant
            @brianjones11

            Ok for clarity then what tools are you using in the vids, they dont look like inserts, brazed tip? HSS

            it is said that you can get a finer sharp edge on HSS so make cutting easier. too sharpe an edge on carbide makes them liable to chip the edge too easily especially on manual feed.

            It also appears that the combination of surface speed, depth of cut and feed rate are what can make all the difference

            saw a vid on this on here somewhere – fascinating 3" billet taking off 10,20,30 thou same speed same power feed only mid one gave a mirror finish

            30 thou he upped the feed rate, and it came out fine? how do you work all this out

            have not got a grip on this yet

            perhaps cnc s/w does all this calc for you/

            #553617
            Vic
            Participant
              @vic

              The OP was clearly about insert tooling as per the picture so I don’t know why it’s changed to HSS? thinking

              #553641
              Michael Gilligan
              Participant
                @michaelgilligan61133
                Posted by Vic on 10/07/2021 23:08:45:

                The OP was clearly about insert tooling as per the picture so I don’t know why it’s changed to HSS? thinking

                .

                Does it matter ?

                … The thread is about Tool post height

                MichaelG.

                #553648
                JasonB
                Moderator
                  @jasonb
                  Posted by Vic on 10/07/2021 23:08:45:

                  The OP was clearly about insert tooling as per the picture so I don’t know why it’s changed to HSS? thinking

                  Thread has also moved on to people saying that a QCTP lacks rigidity, plus the fact I had already done that video several years ago.

                  But as I said in that post 6mm and 8mm holders are also readily available so the OP does not really need to limit himself to 12mm which becomes a lot less "desirable" when it needs one of several solutions to make it work on a machine designed for smaller shank tooling.

                  But here you go. First we have a 8 x 8 shank tool ( JBTools) which is my usual "rougher" as it makes use of the two obtuse corners of CCMY & CCGT inserts. The Insert is a CCGT 060402 I think from Kennametal and classed as "Light Finishing" though it may have been from APT, once the two main corners are used I don't keep track of them. Cut was only 0.225" ( 5.7mm) as the length of edge is not enough to do 1/4" bar 1" EN1A. Note that I'm running 2.5 times faster with the Carbide as with the HSS and less noise from lathe belt .

                  APT insert in a 6 x 6 SCLCR holder (Glanze) same DOC but wanted to run a bit slower. Note that the tool has to project twice as far out of the toolpost, this is because the commercial 6mm tool is thicker at the end so can't be slid back into the toolpost any further, something for those chopping down tools to also think about.

                  As discussion is about toolpost height I will add that my Dicson is the standard "Myford" size as I had it from a previous lathe and just sits on a 6mm plate to bring it upto height but this does limit me to 8mm shank tooling but does not seem to stop me make the odd model or two.

                  #553659
                  Vic
                  Participant
                    @vic
                    Posted by Michael Gilligan on 11/07/2021 07:39:47:

                    Posted by Vic on 10/07/2021 23:08:45:

                    The OP was clearly about insert tooling as per the picture so I don’t know why it’s changed to HSS? thinking

                    .

                    Does it matter ?

                    … The thread is about Tool post height

                    MichaelG.

                    No, but is was originally about insert tooling.

                    #553660
                    JasonB
                    Moderator
                      @jasonb

                      To answer the other questions raised. The Video I posted Yesterday was showing a 6mm square HSS cutting tool that had been freehand ground, no special jigs, grinders or honing of the edge. Rod's video is also HSS.

                      The sharper **GT inserts in this mornings videos do allow for a finer cut but as you say can be a bit more delicate, I would generally not use them for such heavy cuts but that is what was in the holders. They were also used inserts not new for the video. I'll also add that I usually don't take off such a heavy cut at such slow speeds my reasons why have been covered elsewhere on the forum several times and you should build upto what works on your machine don't try such a cut straight away..

                      Yes there are many factors that go into trying to achieve the perfect finish/removal rate/tool life.

                      No CNC does not work it out for you, it's up to the person programming the machine to select tool, enter feeds, speeds and cutting parameters. There are some wizards that will give you some of the se figures but the results should be used as a guide as the individual machine will dictate what it can actually do. Also buying tooling from reputable suppliers who will often give some cutting data for their tools or have makers catalogues available to download will also guide you to what a particular tool is best run at in a particular material.

                      #553661
                      Michael Gilligan
                      Participant
                        @michaelgilligan61133
                        Posted by Vic on 11/07/2021 10:27:30:

                        Posted by Michael Gilligan on 11/07/2021 07:39:47:

                        Posted by Vic on 10/07/2021 23:08:45:

                        The OP was clearly about insert tooling as per the picture so I don’t know why it’s changed to HSS? thinking

                        .

                        Does it matter ?

                        … The thread is about Tool post height

                        MichaelG.

                        No, but is was originally about insert tooling.

                        .

                        Did you read the subject line, Vic ?

                        The material from which the insert is made is irrelevant to that.

                        MichaelG.

                        #553662
                        JasonB
                        Moderator
                          @jasonb

                          Yes could just have well needed to grind 3mm off the top cutting face of a 12mm HSS toolbit as drop an insert 3mm into it's holder. My point was why but the bigger one when smaller does the job without modification.

                          Edited By JasonB on 11/07/2021 10:35:55

                          #553690
                          Michael Gilligan
                          Participant
                            @michaelgilligan61133
                            Posted by Michael Gilligan on 11/07/2021 10:33:21:

                             

                            The material from which the insert is made is irrelevant to that.

                            .

                            The principles would equally apply to Warner’s HSS inserts : **LINK**

                            https://www.arwarnerco.com/CCMW-2-1-5-5-p/inserts-ccmw-21505.htm

                            Or even to these : https://contour-diamonds.com/

                            MichaelG.

                             

                            Edited By Michael Gilligan on 11/07/2021 13:58:31

                            #553692
                            brian jones 11
                            Participant
                              @brianjones11

                              Well thnx 10^6 JB that is most informative with proper explanation that I can work with and learn from

                              I will certainly follow through

                              and not go rushing down the 12mm holder route just yet

                              Its clear that going carbide is something of a black art – hss is so much simpler by comparison

                              As a matter of interest have disposable hss tips every been marketed or is that a silly idea?

                              #553694
                              brian jones 11
                              Participant
                                @brianjones11
                                Posted by Michael Gilligan on 11/07/2021 13:53:58:

                                Posted by Michael Gilligan on 11/07/2021 10:33:21:

                                The material from which the insert is made is irrelevant to that.

                                .

                                The principles would equally apply to Warner’s HSS inserts : **LINK**

                                https://www.arwarnerco.com/CCMW-2-1-5-5-p/inserts-ccmw-21505.htm

                                Or even to these : **LINK**

                                MichaelG.

                                Edited By Michael Gilligan on 11/07/2021 13:58:31

                                Well blow me if this didnt answer the question i just asked HSS inserts?

                                bit pricy for disposable – presumably one could gear up to having a jig to fit to a bench grinder where a touch would be just enough to put the edge back on

                                Perhaps MOD we should make this a separate topic?

                                #553702
                                JasonB
                                Moderator
                                  @jasonb

                                  There are a couple of users of the Warner inserts on another forum I use, they give them a lick with a diamond slip to give them another lease of life.

                                  They are not priced much different to brand name carbide inserts and their cutoff inserts which would fit my Mini-thin holder are less than the carbide ones for that.

                                  #553706
                                  brian jones 11
                                  Participant
                                    @brianjones11

                                    Well that came to a dead stop Warner are available here and their product $8-12 are not cheap, in fact it brought me back to hss form tools

                                    I can get a set of 10mm 8pce Soba £49 from Chronos and to my simple mind it looks like these can be sharpened with a light touch on the end.

                                    It brings me to the question of tool sharpeners jigs (like twists drills – many are mickey mouse)

                                    then I came across this from one of your sponsors

                                    https://www.eccentricengineering.com.au/uk-distributor

                                    £190 not cheap

                                    Anyone any experience here, suggestions

                                    #553723
                                    Vic
                                    Participant
                                      @vic
                                      Posted by brian jones 11 on 11/07/2021 14:17:24:

                                      Well thnx 10^6 JB that is most informative with proper explanation that I can work with and learn from

                                      I will certainly follow through

                                      and not go rushing down the 12mm holder route just yet

                                      Its clear that going carbide is something of a black art – hss is so much simpler by comparison

                                      As a matter of interest have disposable hss tips every been marketed or is that a silly idea?

                                      Have you thought of trying a Tangential tool, bought or home made? Quite a few folks on here like them including myself. Easy to sharpen and built in height adjustment.

                                      Tangential Tool

                                      #553728
                                      brian jones 11
                                      Participant
                                        @brianjones11

                                        Wow that is rude, its like you know what the other way roundsmiley

                                        will look into but the tool holder and sharpener jig for LH and RH are £130!!!!! 5/16 – 1/2"

                                        #553732
                                        Nick Wheeler
                                        Participant
                                          @nickwheeler
                                          Posted by brian jones 11 on 11/07/2021 18:11:56:

                                          Wow that is rude, its like you know what the other way roundsmiley

                                          will look into but the tool holder and sharpener jig for LH and RH are £130!!!!! 5/16 – 1/2"

                                          So buy the RH and copy its geometry to make you own LH.

                                          Or follow some of the other advice and make all of them; that's about £5 of material and a productive evening in the workshop. My RH tool is made from a short piece of10x20 steel bar, and the sharpening jig is a scrap piece of aluminium and two M5 bolts. All for a 3mm square toolbit. I've been meaning to make a LH one since I finished it. That was over 15 years ago which shows how often I need a LH tool. I generally use carbide inserts on 8mm shanks in Dickson QCTP holders that I bought for the mini-lathe I had at the time. Neither are the limitation for the WM250 I now have…

                                          #553757
                                          Vic
                                          Participant
                                            @vic

                                            As said, Tangential tool holders aren’t difficult to make. I used 12° on both angles and it works fine.

                                            #553774
                                            brian jones 11
                                            Participant
                                              @brianjones11

                                              Well ive been doing it from the front lifelong, Ive got enough trouble with Mrs Myford and Mistress doreen Im not going to start round the other way Ive got enough trouble getting them into shape as it is

                                              #553783
                                              Howard Lewis
                                              Participant
                                                @howardlewis46836

                                                Making a Tangential Turning Tool is simple. Three milling operations (Possibly a fourth ) and one drilled hole, once the material is cut to length.

                                                I have them in 1/8, 1/4, and 5/16.

                                                A friend made his in both RH and LH forms.

                                                The sharpening jig is simple and the toolbit is adjusted to to bring the cutting edge to centre height.

                                                There have been two articles on making such a tool in M E W

                                                Easy to make, sharpen, and effective in operation, whats not tom like?

                                                Howard.

                                                Edited By Howard Lewis on 12/07/2021 08:09:24

                                                #553792
                                                Nick Wheeler
                                                Participant
                                                  @nickwheeler
                                                  Posted by Howard Lewis on 12/07/2021 08:08:36:

                                                  Making a Tangential Turning Tool is simple. Three milling operations (Possibly a fourth ) and one drilled hole, once the material is cut to length.

                                                  If you make one with a separate clamp for the toolbit, you could make a perfectly adequate holder with a hacksaw and files.

                                                  #553816
                                                  Vic
                                                  Participant
                                                    @vic
                                                    Posted by Howard Lewis on 12/07/2021 08:08:36:

                                                    Making a Tangential Turning Tool is simple. Three milling operations (Possibly a fourth ) and one drilled hole, once the material is cut to length.

                                                    I have them in 1/8, 1/4, and 5/16.

                                                    A friend made his in both RH and LH forms.

                                                    The sharpening jig is simple and the toolbit is adjusted to to bring the cutting edge to centre height.

                                                    There have been two articles on making such a tool in M E W

                                                    Easy to make, sharpen, and effective in operation, whats not tom like?

                                                    Howard.

                                                    Edited By Howard Lewis on 12/07/2021 08:09:24

                                                    And cheap to “run” using small pieces of HSS. wink

                                                    #553852
                                                    John Baron
                                                    Participant
                                                      @johnbaron31275

                                                      Hi Guys,

                                                      I agree with the comments that Tangential lathe tools are quite easy to male and use. I made one quite a while ago.

                                                      Easy to set up and easy to sharpen. You get a good finish too.

                                                      This is a drawing of one that I made. Just scale to suit whatever HSS or carbide you want to use.

                                                      tangentel tool.jpg

                                                      09-06-2020-014.jpg

                                                      09-06-2020-015.jpg

                                                      09-06-2020-017.jpg

                                                      As you can see the finish is not too bad.

                                                      09-06-2020-016.jpg

                                                      Certainly better than my photography smile

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