Too stealthy: New off-radar US destroyer poses maritime traffic risks

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Ongoing at-sea tests of the most advanced and expensive destroyer ever, the USS Zumwalt (DDG 1000), have exposed an unexpected problem. Perceived as a medium-sized fishing boat on radars, its sheer size shocks ill-prepared fishermen when it approaches.

Maine lobsterman Lawrence Pye experienced the “Zumwalt-effect” for himself. He saw something that appeared on his radar screen to be a 15-meter fishing boat, but it materialized into a gigantic 186-meter warship. IThe destroyer was returning to the Bath Iron Works shipbuilding yard after a series of sea trials.

“It's pretty mammoth when it's that close to you,” the Associated Press cited Pye as saying.

**LINK**

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

(It shows up as a fishing boat on radar)

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

If it is as successful as the F-35 they may as well sink it now.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Well we'll not have to worry if anything kicks off… we have all of our mighty fleet to protect us… all 19 front line ships of it inc. a few type 45 destroyers, about 4 nuclear capability Astute class subs where there is only one capable of being at sea at any one time. India by comparison has a huge naval force compared to ours…& where did they get the finances to build their fleet… well I don't have to answer that one do I… 'nuff said.

George.

[Geoff TheasbyParticipant @geofftheasby]

Ady,

In what way was the USS

Zumwalt a problem to the fisherman? Agreed he was surprised, as one would expect, but in good visibility he would see it a way off, and in fog or darkness he should be giving it a wide berth anyway.

There are other stealth aircraft, and ships, and our submarines are coated with an anti-detection substance that began life as 'Stumpf' on U-Boats in WWII.

Geoff

[Roger Williams 2Participant @rogerwilliams2]

Mechman 48,, dont forget the fact that a couple of years ago, we had 45 admirals too !!!. More than ships.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Reminds me of this story – apochryphal but funny…

ACTUAL transcript of a US naval ship with Canadian authorities off the coast of Newfoundland in October, 1995. This radio conversation was released by the Chief of Naval Operations on

10-10-95.

Americans: "Please divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a collision."

Canadians: "Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision."

Americans: "This is the captain of a US Navy ship. I say again, divert YOUR course."

Canadians: "No, I say again, you divert YOUR course."

Americans: "THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN, THE SECOND LARGEST SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES' ATLANTIC FLEET. WE ARE ACCOMPANIED BY THREE DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS SUPPORT VESSELS. I DEMAND THAT YOU CHANGE YOUR COURSE 15 DEGREES NORTH. THAT'S ONE-FIVE DEGREES NORTH, OR COUNTER MEASURES WILL BE UNDERTAKEN TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THIS SHIP."

Canadians: "This is a lighthouse. Your call."

[JAParticipant @ja]

Balloons are invisible on radar. I believe they all carry transponders to allow them to be tracked by air traffic control. Perhaps the US Navy could learn something here in peace time anyway.

There is a radar invisible building at Heathrow airport.

JA

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

To quote Capt Lucky Jack Aubrey:

"That's one slab sided dutch built bugger"

Might be very radar efficient but not a great looking ship in my opinion. JD

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I think it is an Americas Cup entry that capsized……

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Ady,In what way was the USS Zumwalt a problem to the fisherman?

It's mainly at night where the problem exists, or in fog

A radar return normally tells you how big a nearby vessel is and therefore how maneuverable it is and how much of a threat it is, especially in restricted coastal scenarios

It's like hearing someone just round the corner when you are walking up to that corner, and when you turn the corner it's actually a double decker bus

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

The first thing that jumped into my head when I saw that "new" sooper dooper destroyer was how ship design appears to be reverting back to the original ironclads from the American Civil War

The CSS Virginia

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Should it not be the responsibility of the Navy boats to avoid the fishermen not the other way about?

Marin

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by Martin Kyte on 13/04/2016 09:09:39:

Should it not be the responsibility of the Navy boats to avoid the fishermen not the other way about?

Marin

I take it this isn't always possible, the navy can decide to operate wherever it suits them but i'm sure they wont deliberately go somewhere with heavy fishing traffic if they can help it.

Michael W

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

I didn't mean avoid the area but avoid the collision. The Navy have better watch-keeping and better radar.

regards Martin

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

"Reminds me of this story – apochryphal but funny…

ACTUAL transcript of a US naval ship with Canadian authorities off the coast of Newfoundland in October, 1995. This radio conversation was released by the Chief of Naval Operations on 10-10-95."

It goes back a lot further than that:

http://www.snopes.com/military/lighthouse.asp

George

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

I didn't mean avoid the area but avoid the collision. The Navy have better watch-keeping and better radar.

Now they know about this radar issue the watchkeeping officers will be aware of potential problems ahead of time so that helps a lot

The easiest solution would be to have radar reflectivity improved when required, and removed when on patrol

Big dangerous ships will only see a tiny radar signature and assume they are a fishing boat or a yacht… and these tiny vessels normally give big ships a wide berth so the big ship will be completely relaxed about that tiny radar signature as it gets closer and closer….

You don't want someone donking into your billion dollar boat in peacetime just because it's almost invisible

 

Edited By Ady1 on 13/04/2016 10:27:49

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