Tom Senior light X Axis power feed

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Posted by JasonB on 14/04/2020 07:17:57:

You are getting there Steve. From watching you adjust the Y axis I would say you may have the gibs a bit too tight as it looks like they take some effort to turn, maybe slacken off very slightly and you can always use the lock to add a bit of drag if needed by just nipping it up but not fully tightening.

Tool is not a 4-flute slot, just a 4-flute endmill as there is no ctr cutting tooth on the end.

As you say for the dovetail mill out just deeper with a straight cutter then the edges with the DT cutter. Chamfers are easily done by tilting the work in the vice and just using the edge of a standard cutter.

Hi Jason, I am slightly confused with the cutters. In the picture I thought the left one is a 2 flute end mill & the 2 on the right are 4 flute slot mills. Due to not being able to drill down with the right hand ones, The Y axis is tight you are correct. It came like that & at 1st I thought it was dry , but have since lubed the whole machine with no success. So I will do as you say & back off the adjusters slightly till it is smooth.

The motor, I am going to isolate & meggar the windings. I am not convinced they are all good. So going to do a full check on it. Unfortunately with the slitting saw ,it was the only one I had with that width. I have a stack of very small finer toothed ones, but would have been no good for such a thick piece of metal. I have a bandsaw , cheap Aldi one but the blade needs changing.

Strangely even my 355mm Makita cut off saw would not cut the block. Brand new Screwfix blade in it too. I would like a powered hacksaw, but not got room for one. Any half decent one seems to cost a small fortune too. I really do appreciate all the help you have given. Regards  

Steve.

Edited By Steviegtr on 14/04/2020 14:57:38

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Steve,

One on the left is a slot drill (clue is in the term drill) it is centre cutting and can drill down into the material and form a slot like a keyway. The two on the right are end mills and are not centre cutting – hole in the middle. They are for general milling not pocketing down into recesses where you need to cut on the end. Don't get too worked about the flutes, there are all sorts of permutations, more common modern cutters are 3 flute and centre cutting. Slot drill / end mill is a fairly dated term in this modern age of CNC and zillion rpm spindles!

Paul.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Steviegtr on 14/04/2020 04:06:48:

…

Can I recommend again that you build something like a model stationary engine from a plan. Using a lathe and mill to make a range of different parts out of different materials that fit together into a complex working engine is extremely educational. Especially the mistakes! An important aspect is the need to use other tools in concert – work-holding, brazing, saws, files, drills, reamers, laps & measuring gear etc)

Sod i have already got 4 stationary engines.

Can't drive em for at least 12 weeks as am told to stay indoors. Why the hell would I want another one.

…

Just to add I was brazing cast iron to mild steel at school for my motorcycle when I was 14. I have probably sawn more steel, wood , plastic etc than you have. One of the 1st projects in metalwork was to learn how to draw file. How to clean a file. Me I took the broken ones home & ground them down to make wood chisels. I still have some in the workshop. Not used a reamer since doing the rear sub frames on mini's (Radius arm bushes). Not done many laps though. Hated running. Measuring ,mnn not sure how to do that other than spending half my life scaling drawings & transferring to CAD. Regards. Ranting over.

…

Steve.

Are these 4 stationary engines you made yourself Steve? I meant a model engine made entirely by you that can be picked with one hand, displayed in a living room and run off compressed air, not a Petter.

No practical reason to make one other than learning how to make a variety of parts out of different metals with a lathe and milling machine. From scratch! At the end all the parts have to fit together and work. It's an educational challenge, far more difficult than turning a file into a wood-chisel!

Steve's examples of past experience are all jolly good but miss my point . None of these previous triumphs relate to making precision parts with machine tools! For example, I don't mean measuring as in scaling drawings, valuable though that is. I mean 'measuring' as demanded from building to a moderately complex drawing calling for many accurately dimensioned and inter-related parts. No freelancing allowed, it's about the operator showing he can produce exactly what a plan calls for. Length, height, depth measured to within 0.02mm throughout, curves to specification, correct diameter holes in the all the right places, tapped, chamfered, knurled, grooved, polished and assembled in operational condition. A really good operator can look at an engineering plan and estimate how the build will take and how much it will cost.

Making a complex object teaches a great deal about what's good and bad about any tools used, including the operator.

Please make this poor old man happy by building something challenging. About a weeks worth of mixed lathe and milling work would do trick.

All my suspicions will be confirmed if Steve's next post is a rant rather than his immaculately completed homework!

Dave

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Dave. I have the utmost respect for you as I do all the members. I also can see your point in mentioning making a stationary engine or the like. I think what puts me off is 2 things.

1: is the lack of interest of doing such , although I think I would may be incapable anyway. I have always admired miniature models. I always say if I see a really good engineered one that I do not know how they have the patience to do that.

2nd. My friend has had a lifelong hobby of building very small, medium & 1/4 scale steam engines. I spent much time in the past at his workshops . The last one he built was a Foden 1/4 scale steam truck. He actually made 2. One to sell & one to keep. Point is he took 8 years making those. The one before was a 1/4 scale showman's. That took over 5 years. I doubt I will live another 5 years. Assuming the dreaded Cov does not get me. So i do decline your offer. What does interest me is dabbling in the garage. I am currently changing the front end of a very expensive jaguar that should have been finished months ago. I started renovating the Suzuki nearly 3 years ago. It has stood for the last 2 years gathering dust. I am a bit of a roundtooit type. I do enjoy what i am doing though even if it is not to high standards of precission.

Steve.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Hi Steve,

I think you've got a great many positives to build on. Creativity, tool ability, confidence, enthusiasm, resourcefulness, and energy are major assets.

But lathes and milling machines are subtle beasts and getting the best out of them needs a certain amount of disciplined effort. Bit like learning to play the piano: whilst any BF can bash the keys, the goal is to play tunes! And then to play them really well, perfectly timed with a dash of personality.

My first advice is simply to "slow down". Don't rush to modify machine tools before understanding them. Confidence is a virtue, over-confidence and bravado are sins.

My second advice is don't squander your talent! Given the coin rings and other successes, I think you would be a seriously good machinist if you tried. Give it a try.

I have huge sympathy with dabbling; it's what I do! I don't make models, rather my workshop supports experimental time-wasting. No way would I spend 8 years building a quarter scale Foden. My experimental work needs a certain amount of skill and I learned enormously from building a simple model engine. It's just a good way of developing skills. Anything of equivalent complexity will do. Bear in mind professional machinists usually went through an apprenticeship; a few years of expert training and practice before they were considered competent, and not everyone made the grade.

As Model Engineering is done for fun I don't mind how others approach it. A friend has a gleaming double-garage workshop full of Snap-On cabinets and expensive tools. He uses it to tinker with his well-ridden motorbike, but any serious job goes to the main dealer. He enjoys what he does very much. My workshop is an untidy disgrace, full of much used cheap tools and bodged results. I enjoy it very much, he hates it!

Dave

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

A bit late with a reply to your post SOD. Just an aside in parallel. I went to watch the formula 1 stock car racing with friends many years ago at white city in Manchester. I was taken by it. My friends had a stock car which was a little overweight & sported a Buick 400ci engine. It was once a 1st place car in many races but old & worn out. I bit the bullet & bought one myself from a Superstar.

A Superstar is a stock car driver who is in the top 5 winners in the country,  better known as a red top. Look it up. . The car was a medium weight batmobile design car. It had a 454ci which  is a 7.4 litre Chev engine which was the LS6 version fitted to the C3 Corvette cars. It had LS7 internals & was obviously very quick.

My mates kept saying what are you doing, lets go racing. I was not happy with the engine in it's form. I removed & stripped it. I had not entered one race yet & was taking it to pieces. I had 25 thou taken off the top of the pistons , because I noticed all the other cars were bogging down in the corners , 11:1 down to 10:1. I then ported the inlet chambers & put a radius on the exhaust valves. From speedboat racers input . This gave an extra 3hp per cylinder. I then fitted 4 into 1 tubular black jack headers, which was unheard of in the stock car field. 8 straight pipes was the norm & as an all knowing guy you will get that straight pipes gives enormous torque at low revs. But above 2500 they are useless. I then fitted home made tapered megaphone exhausts. From 3 1/2 " to 4 1/2 ". This gives a better exhaust pulse which scavenges the gases before the next stroke of clean gas & air.

We went racing. Never done it before so you should put a black cross on the roof & start at the back. Novice. (NOVICE). So i started at the front being the ass i am. I crashed the car & it went up in flames. No just a joke. I won the 1st race by a half a lap. I went on to win a few more before being made redundant at the oil refinery i was working on. so had to pack it in. Mortgage & all.

So what is this idiot going on about.

I am referring in a huge circle to the fact that i have a lovely old mill & a lovely old lathe. They are now or just about are back in this century. I am now using them & not having any problems with my stupid modifications i have done so far,, more to come. Vacuum chip removal system on the cards. Pics to follow.

Which means I wil be able to go in to the house for a coffee swarf free.

Motorcycles. Look this up too Ducati DVT timing belt change. Must be done by a main dealer. Yes,,, rubbish. Job for the summer. Very kind regards to all. Best forum, in Europe.

Steve

I hope that was not too cheeky. I love to vent. Gives the lungs a good thrashing. 

 

 

Edited By Steviegtr on 03/05/2020 01:14:28

Edited By Steviegtr on 03/05/2020 01:22:41

Edited By Steviegtr on 03/05/2020 01:24:22

Edited By Steviegtr on 03/05/2020 01:25:17

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

It would be a boring world if we were all clones of each other.

Martin C

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Well hello again forum members. Since the last posting on this subject I have done a little bit more work on the Tom Senior milling machine.

A few members watch my video's of the workshop. Most don't.

I think the mods I have done are subtle & do not detract from the quality & build of a fine old machine. Others may say you have ruined it. I am still doing work on the ZQ axis readout which will be going online soon. Also the speed control of the X axis which is not so good.

Anyway anyone who has a Tom Senior or indeed a milling machine, may in the future want to do some of the mods I have done to improve there machines.

Steve.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

A few members watch my video's of the workshop. Most don't.

A fair assumption, I would say, looking at the number of views for your youtube videos.🙂

But there is likely a large proportion of forum members who are inactive. So it depends on what data you mightbbe working from…

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Sorry NDIY , I was just going on past feedback comments from forum members. Saying they will not watch youtube etc.

Steve.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I noticed in your video that you were still thinking about a digital readout on the quill. The cheap and cheerful ones like I have on the museum's drill mill and TS vary in width, and the one I bought for the TS light vertical was too wide to fit without getting in the way of the quill lock. I was lucky to find that the one I had fitted to the drill mill was smaller. If you are thinking of getting one, the 40mm wide type can be fitted without too much difficulty, but the 48mm one was fitted to the drill mill which has more room.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited By old mart on 20/01/2022 21:05:05

Edited By old mart on 20/01/2022 21:07:43

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Thanks for those pics Old mart. I have actually started making it now. On the right hand side. The one i bought is the 8" with the remote readout. I know there is only 4" of quill travel , but i got the extra length for mounting reasons.

Shame i had not seen your pics earlier. I would probably have done it differently.

Steve.

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