Titch or Juliet

[Bob PerkinsParticipant @bobperkins67044]

So if I'm going to build my first locomotive should I choose a Titch or Juliet?

Edited By Bob Perkins on 16/01/2014 08:19:08

[Bob PerkinsParticipant @bobperkins67044]

[John BaguleyParticipant @johnbaguley78655]

I'd go for Juliet. It's no more difficult to build than Tich and is much more forgiving to run with the larger boiler. A Tich takes a lot of skill to fire and run. Good fun though if you get the hang of it.

John

[Derek DroverParticipant @derekdrover32802]

Personally neither. They're small and frustrating to learn to run due to their small size. I'd suggest something with a larger boiler/firebox, where there are plenty of examples built, and can be seen running. Something larger will give better performance on track and greater satisfaction, even pull passengers happily. I have a 31/2 Netta which is not a complicated engine (even with internal stephensons valve gear), but there are other LBSC models I.e Maisy, which can be great little engines. Also Martin Evan's Jubilee is a cracking loco.. with a lot of parts easily available laser cut (all the plate work can be bought laser cut and soft-soldered).

I know a lot of people say go for 5" i.e. Simplex… but I have one of these and its no easier/harder, but blooming heavier !!

Just my personal thoughts on the question before I'm hounded to death by those who think differently.

Del.

[Bob YouldonParticipant @bobyouldon45599]

Bob,

Personally I'd always advise a little larger locomotive than the Tich or Juliet, me I'd go for the Maisie, they are a most forgiving locomotive, hundreds have been built, they are more than capable of keeping up with the big boys also pulling a reasonable load, moreover it's still a one man lift locomotive. The simple boiler with the wide firebox makes it an excellent steamer, They've got no vices! Yes it's got a tender, but that's an advantage, plenty of water, somewhere to put the coal, the shovel and your fire irons and importantly somewhere to put that cup of tea! A great fun engine.

Regards,

Bob Youldon. . . . .

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Take a look at the Conway locomotive. A friend has one, which we took out last New Years day (look for "Conway Locomotive Canada" on youtube, and you'll find it).

It's simple, surprisingly light, and more than enough oomph for the task at hand. I really like it.

I do have a Tich, which IMHO is a fantastic locomotive, but do understand that others may think it's too small.

For me, either you go for a large 7-1/4" locomotive, or a smaller 3-1/2"; I don't understand 5" gauge.

(smaller 3-1/2" – easy to transport/manhandle, larger 7-1/4 – the "appeal of the large"; 5" – big enough to be a pain to manhandle, but a "wannabe" 7-1/4" – but that's just my opinion – yours may differ)

John — http://cnc-for-model-engineers.blogspot.com

Edited By John Alexander Stewart on 16/01/2014 13:00:22

[richardandtracyParticipant @richardandtracy]

For simplicity's sake, what about LBSC's 'Rainhill'? (I'm asking as a potential first loco builder myself, not suggesting it.)

Seems to have many advantages, simple slip eccentrics, 0-2-2 configuration but with superheat. Light & small too. Is it just too simple?

Regards,

Richard.

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

Re Rainhill – several people have reported that there is not enough tractive effort with Rainhill, and it is difficult to get enough weight on the drivers without ruining the loco's appearance with weights stuck on all over the front end. There are several threads on this site for Rainhill, one with all the drawing errors reported so far. In the ME articles I noted that there is not one picture or sufficient written/drawing details of the foundation ring and throatplate area of the boiler.

In comparing Tich and Juliet I remember someone wrote in and said that Ajax was a better choice of loco as slightly larger but same sort of complexity as T and J, and said it was very suited to new builders.

JD

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

I just remembered one writer reported improvement in traction of his Rainhill by adding a big rare earth magnet under the buffer beam! The traction on that engine sounds iffy to me, if you need a magnet!

[richardandtracyParticipant @richardandtracy]

Definitely a bit iffy.

Regards,

Richard

[RICHARD GREEN 2Participant @richardgreen2]

You could have magnetic wheels ?…………………………………….powered by a car battery in the tender?………………………………..

[Llongford RailwayParticipant @llongfordrailway]

Hi Bob,

I am building a tich as my first engine. Why? Well I have a small lathe (unimat SL) and I knew I would make lots of mistakes due to my lack of experience. Castings are cheap enough if I make a mistake to start again. It won't pull much but I'm not building it for that. I think you need to build to what you feel is ascertainable for you. Tich comes with a construction manual with a step by step and methodical approach which is exactly what I need as I knew I would struggle to build an engine just from drawings.

I think it can be fashionable these days to build a 5" or 7 1/4" engine on your first time out but if you don't have the space, experience or machinery, you may struggle early on and the engine may take a long time to be finished- if at all.

Just my 2penneth.

Daniel

[william PowellParticipant @williampowell50917]

Hi Bob

I run both a 3.5 "Juliet and a 5" Speedy. Apart from charity and open days were Speedy is working hard pulling loads, i much prefer Juliet. She is easy to carry, and lives under my bench, were as Speedy has a trolley to move her around. She has managed 2 adults and a child around Bournemouth's Club track pulling our large 7 1/4" passenger trolley. She makes plenty of steam,and she would pull more if i could add more ballast. See a clip of her below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epAcvROR7XA

 She was built by a beginner and a bit sloppy in places, but she steams well. She is not any more difficult to drive and fire than the Speedy, although things happy more quickly on a small engine. Hope this helps

Will

 

 

Edit redid link for video , i cant embed it.

Edited By william Powell on 17/01/2014 14:42:01

Edited By william Powell on 17/01/2014 14:44:13

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Posted by william Powell on 17/01/2014 14:41:10:

… i much prefer Juliet. She is easy to carry, and lives under my bench, were as Speedy has a trolley to move her around. She has managed 2 adults and a child around Bournemouth's Club track pulling our large 7 1/4" passenger trolley. She makes plenty of steam,and she would pull more if i could add more ballast.

Will – thanks for the words of encouragement for both the OP, and for smaller gauges in general.

There are a growing handful of people "over here" pushing the smaller gauges again for the reasons you stated, plus one – the larger the gauge, the larger the track, and thus the harder it is getting to get the land to build on.

John.

[Bob PerkinsParticipant @bobperkins67044]

Dear all

thanks for your interest and helpful comments. Lots of opinions , which are expected and valued, and I'm pleased to see that there are some positive comments which ever way I decide to go. I'll ponder a bit more, but at present I'm leaning towards a Juliet. I'm thinking about making contact with my local club as I'll need some local help and advice, ooh, and hopefully some where to run it one day!

thanks Bob..

[DAVID FOWLERParticipant @davidfowler76764]

I started with 2.5inch Basset-Lowke Flying Scotsman and a Super Adept lathe, aged 11, a definate no no!!

Subsequently LBSC's Juliet on an EW lathe and then a Masie on an ML 7. Both were equal in building, but Masie has more to it, including a combustion chamber. Juliet hauls four adults quite happily on an up and down track and Masie eight adults. She used to fly around the old Witney and West Oxford track at Woodstock with four adults.

David

[Bob PerkinsParticipant @bobperkins67044]

I've made the decision to build a Juliet, now it seems I need to decide whether it will be a Juliet Baker or a Juliet Stephenson. Any advice from those in the know?

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

Just my 2 cents worth, as someone who has built both types of valvegear:

If you are skilled at close but smooth fitting pins /holes/ bush type joints you will have no trouble with Baker gear. If the joints are sloppy, too tight, or holes are out of position, there could be trouble.

Baker gear does require some accurate hole to hole distances which are more critical as size/scale of engine gets smaller.

Stephenson gear is a little more forgiving in terms of distance between holes etc. but the expansion link and die block must be made carefully and made of compatible wearing materials, otherwise friction and wear will be high and the engine will not run smoothly and/or for a long time. If the link's pin joints are sloppy, or die block to link fit is sloppy or eccentric fits are loose there could be trouble. The expansion link can be a hard part to make by hand. With a jig and/or rotary table, not so much. Even less trouble if you lay it out in CAD and have it wire EDM cut out of pre-hardened gauge plate.

Baker gear if made well is very smooth in operation with little friction, and with excellent control of valve events.

Good luck. JD

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

Juliet stephenson gear everytime.

i can file after chain drilling a pair of expansion links in gauge plate to pretty much dead accuracy in an evening.

my personal choice for a beginners' loco would be don young's RAILMOTOR, as it was my first loco i started when 16. LBSC's MAISEE is also an excellent loco though mine had the original boiler not the combustion chamber version as in the later book, and steamed as well as if not better than any other MAISEE ive driven (mine was made into an LBSCR H2 Atlantic as is currently being built on the Bluebell Railway).

cheers,

julian

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

Bob ,

With small side tank engines there is a lot to be said for having all the works on the ouside of the engine .

Nothing to do with merits of different valve gears or ease of making – just easy access !

Julian ,

I’ve always fancied making the 6 wheel integral tender version of the railmotor – might give it a go one day .

There was a nice railmotor at Cardiff track when I used to visit years ago ( c 1971-5)- was that
yours ??

There was also on one occassion a RRy 0-6-2 and a Netta built as a Barry engine – built by Ross McKay ?? .

Altogether a good showing of Welsh engines .

Regards ,

MikeW

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

hi michael,

the only RAILMOTOR i know of during that period in the then whitchurch and district club was also a loco built by ross mckay. a pic of ross's loco was used in Reeves catalogue for many years.

cheers,

julian

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