Tiny Sissons vertical single steam engine

[OldMetallerParticipant @oldmetaller]

Hi everyone, I've just got home with my first full-size steam engine, admittedly only a very tiny one. There are more pictures of the engine in my photo album of the same title.

It's about 24 inches high and weighs about 140 lbs…it took me and my burly mate Lawrence to lift it onto my kitchen table, I'll not be trying to move it myself.

Apparently, it's out of a Royal Navy ship and was used to drive a generator or pump. It was found a few years ago in a Portsmouth ship-breaker's yard. It has a bore and stroke of about 3 & 1/2" x 3 & 1/2" I am told, and has a pressure test date of 27/7/05 stamped on it, making it nearly 110 years old!

I don't have a definite idea what I am going to do with this little beauty, but a couple of possibilities so far are driving a line shaft in my outside workshop, or possibly, with a reversing gearbox, driving a steam launch.

I've never had anything to do with a steam engine this big (!) before, so I'd like to hear opinions from more knowledgeable members of this forum. The main thing I'd like to know is, how big a boiler would I need to run this little beast? I'd like to go for a proper coal-fired boiler, because…well, just because! …I love the smell!

Please feel free to comment, even if only to tell me I'm barking mad!

Best wishes,

John.

[OldMetallerParticipant @oldmetaller]

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

Posted by OldMetaller on 22/02/2015 13:25:20:

I've never had anything to do with a steam engine this big (!)

The law states that you have to give it to me.!!!!!!!

Sorry un-all-that but the law is the law.

Nick

[Swarf, Mostly!Participant @swarfmostly]

Hi there, Oldmetaller,

Congratulations on your acquisition.

The name of Sissons rang a bell when I read it: there used to be two firms who operated steamers on the River Thames, one was Salters and I can't recall the name of the other. Point is, I'm sure I read somewhere that their steam engines included some by Sissons. Triple expansion rings a bell, too.

I believe, but would welcome correction if I'm wrong, that some of the steamers were converted to diesel but one or more have reverted to steam power?

Looking forward to others pooling their recollections,

Best regards,

Swarf, Mostly!

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Sissons did quite a few enclosed high speed steam engines as the power source for generating sets. Plenty on Prestons site, if you wait for the pages to load there is a similar sized Stuart one with a boiler which may give you an idea of whats needed to run one of these, sadly I don't think it will also fit on your kitchen table.

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

Can't help on the size of boiler required without resort to loads of calcs, but in the late 1960's a motorship I sailed on with all steam auxiliaries had Sisson's steam engines, six foot high ones, driving air compressors and also DC generators, and very reliable they were too.

Well done for finding that, good luck with building a boiler for it,

Chris

[Tony SwanseaParticipant @tonyswansea]

Could be 2005 making it 10 years old

Tony

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

John,

I am suitably envious, and would love to see it in a little Launch, for cruising the Canals or Lakes !

The fourth picture in your Album shows engineering features that may be relevant to long-standing debates:

• The nuts have [I think] the original Whitworth proportions in relation to the thread size.
• The full-nuts are at the bottom, with thin lock-nuts on top.
• The full-nuts have their flat face to the casting, and chamfer upward.

If there is evidence that this engine is 'as first built' then it would be worth documenting such details for reference.

… The first point is not contentious, but may be useful to future generations.

… The second and third have been argued-about for decades !!

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

• The nuts have [I think] the original Whitworth proportions in relation to the thread siz

Looks like that to me too

• The full-nuts are at the bottom, with thin lock-nuts on top.
• The full-nuts have their flat face to the casting, and chamfer upward.

But it may have been stripped down a few times!

As a fast single cylinder it may need to valve timing tweaking to make it more economical on steam for use on a launch, and it won't reliably self-start. You could use a gearbox for reversing.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 23/02/2015 09:55:03:

But it may have been stripped down a few times!

.

Err … That's why I took the trouble to include the caveat :

If there is evidence that this engine is 'as first built'

MichaelG.

[OldMetallerParticipant @oldmetaller]

Hi everyone, thank you for all those helpful comments, it's nice that it's not just me that's excited about it!

It's very interesting about the way the nuts have been put on (thanks, MichaelG), that hadn't even occurred to me! I will photograph the dismantling process carefully, to make sure I get everything right when I put it back together!

Neil, thanks for the suggestion about retiming the engine, that's a damn good idea!

The chap I bought it off said that the bearings would need replacing if I'm going to do more with it than just watch it tick over- they appear to be split brasses, something I've heard about but never encountered. It looks like my lathe is going to get a grown-up job to do, soon!

Thanks again for all the positive comments, I'll keep you all posted but it may not be for a while, as I'm doing college work until the end of June and that doesn't leave me much workshop time, sadly.

Best wishes,

John.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Even if you did play with the timing you would not have a very usable engine in a launch. These small enclosed engines were designed to run for extended periods at speeds of around 1000rpm which is where they developed the best power.

Its unusual that it has a square access panel when virtually all of the other Sissons offerings had a round one and also that there is no "Sisson" cast into the crancase.

Your lathe should get a proper grown up job with a 10-12" flywheel which it will need

Got me thinking of doing a bit more on the 1/2 scale Stuart one that I have drawn up and made a tentative start on.

Edited By JasonB on 23/02/2015 10:48:44

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by JasonB on 23/02/2015 10:48:07:

Even if you did play with the timing you would not have a very usable engine in a launch. These small enclosed engines were designed to run for extended periods at speeds of around 1000rpm which is where they developed the best power.

.

That's a pity

What about a nice compact epicyclic gearbox on the output ?

… Or maybe go all trendy-modern and build a steam-electric hybrid

MichaelG.

[OldMetallerParticipant @oldmetaller]

Hi MichaelG, I used to have a hybrid car, so it would make sense to have a hybrid boat as well!

JasonB, I'm going by the 'WS' and the 'broad arrow' symbol stamped onto the valve chest cover.

My ML7 won't cope with a 10 – 12" flywheel, but I'm looking forward to making the bearing brasses and also a pair of cylinder drain cocks, at the moment there are just plugs in the holes where the cocks should be.

Regards,

John.

[michael coleParticipant @michaelcole91146]

Hi John

I should think it would make a rather different and good steam boat engine. You could fit a prop from a IC engine to suit the revs or just have a belt drive with a 2:1 reduction,quite commom on steamboats. Boilers, either buy one or make a weldless one. Details from the Steamboat Association website. There is also a reversing propeller for sale there . No need for a gearbox.

Mike

[OldMetallerParticipant @oldmetaller]

Hi Michael, some great ideas there, thank you!

I've just seen a model reversing propeller that is going up for auction on the Unofficial Mamod website and I was very taken with the principle, I hadn't thought of translating it to full-size!

Regards,

John.

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

There is a book published on converting old car gearboxes for boat use. Can't remember the title tho'. It is good and practical but you would have to find an old gearbox. You could have step down and forward / reverse.

[michael coleParticipant @michaelcole91146]

There is also the Kichen rudder which, taken from Wiki " a combination rudder and directional propulsion delivery system for relatively slow speed displacement boats which was invented in the early 20th century by John G.A.Kitchen of Lancashire, England. It turns the rudder into a directional thruster, and allows the engine to maintain constant revolutions and direction of drive shaft rotation while altering thrust by use of a control which directs thrust forward or aft. Only the rudder pivots; the propeller itself is on a fixed shaft and does not."

I know of one steamboat a 20 footer which uses one of these.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

What you need is an Austin 7 gearbox

This one is sold, unfortunately. One from a Reliant Robin would do (actually robin engines used to be a popular choice for 'marinising&#39.

http://www.7ca.co.uk/used_parts.htm

Neil

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

If you did go the gearbox way an old Ford Pop' SV is the easiest and strong. There are still plenty about .

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