TIG welding

[andrew winksParticipant @andrewwinks64215]

Hi John, it seem to be the AC TiGs and ally welding that benefit from foot pedal tweaking of current settings although no personal experience, just watching an expert at work.

[andrew winksParticipant @andrewwinks64215]

Also John, to answer your first part of your comment, for some reason, I cannot maintain a constant arc on low current on very thin sheet whereas with oxy acet, I can accomplish things at a jewellers scale. I don't like blaming the tool as it's usually the operator but maybe my Chinese made unit is a bit lacking… Dunno

[Involute CurveParticipant @involutecurve]

One of the problems I found when moving over from gas to Tig, was that I tended to keep too long an arc length, I didn't know this until a friend who is a top coded welder set my machine up for me, I have a foot pedal, but as John does, I also tend to stand when welding, so the foot pedals out, and like John if you make a Ball's of it you can run outside and throw it over next doors fence, before anyone can see it, ;-)
I use a manual pulse on thin stuff i.e. I use the slope up slope down function to vary the current between two settings and manually pulse it by pressing the trigger this allows much more control over the current and heat input, I also walk the cup when ever possible, a Gas lense and cleanliness are an absolute must.

Shaun

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Been experimenting holding the torch with start lever in different positions.

Photo 1 showing how I started holding, with the lever operated by index finger and I was not totally comfortable with.

Photos 2&3 show the start lever swivelled round for operation using my thumb, and this feels much better, but will carry on trying to see if I can get a better position for that lever.

Seeing it's only a limit switch, may make a foot pedal for bench work.

Photo 1:

Photo 2&3:

Geoff – Wind preventing me fixing Carport roof

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

May seem a silly question but what setting are you running the helmet on? In the pictures it looks like it is set on minimum which is probably not a good setting for TIG!

FYI

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

Just to comment on items raised so far, in my experience:Remember that the thinner the steel being welded, the thinner the electrode needed. Welding thin plate with a thick e;ectrode is a nightmare and the arc length has to be miniscule. Having spent so much of my career (no longer thankfully!) as a welder I would always advocate a seated position whenever possible. Obviously TIG requires a one handed aproach but for MIG I would never choose anything but a two handed hold, or to be more precise the right hand holds the torch and the left hand supports the right wrist. Dont be tempted to use pure Argon on MIG, it will fuse but the arc is very unstable resulting in a very uncontrolable and poor weld. I dont use automatic lenses as I have had cheaper items fail to react quickly enough, as stated above. The result ranges from partial blindness for a few minutes to arc eye at 3am! And if youve never experienced this is it absolutely like having sand thrown into your eyes, then rubbed in for good measure. Choice of gloves has to be thick guantlets for MIG, but grade is not critical. However for delicate TIG work the right glove is very important if you dont use a foot pedal. The action of pushing the trigger can greatly upset torch stability and thumb is my choice also. Remember to gring the tip in the correct orientation or your arc will be all over the place. Having looked at the lens chart Bob has attached I can tell you that if this is followed you wont be able to see the work in the 40 – 175 amp range. Everyones eyes are different but a no.9 will happily shade adequately to 80 amps, a no.10 to 140 amps, and a no.11 up to 200 amps (this is assuming lenses are high quality and not the take your chances cheapo type). As a novice the one thing you will struggle with is seeing where you are going, not much point in having a closely controlled arc if your weld is two inches from where it should be, and yes, been there and done that on more than one occassion. like I said, this is just my experience and it might help someone, somewhere.

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

The chart was c/o Miller welders **LINK** , also do not forget to protect others when welding as arc eye is not something to inflict on anyone.

Bob

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Thanks Bob and fizzy.

Helmet normally set at 10, but had just done second practice at 80amps. Still very much in the learning curve, unlike gas with one shade.

I am going to have to practice NOT sitting down as I will need to weld on the car, so that's going to be interesting to say the least

Second practice session just completed and although I don't normally brag, I'm more than happy with the results.

My gas welding experience is most definitely helping, but the last time I did any O/A welding was in the '80s, so it's taking time to get muscle co-ordination right. Still dipping electrodes

Using the 1/16" electrodes you really have to get close to see where that small puddle is. Another surprise.

One thing that has struck me is how slow and precise TIG is, with very little heat spread compared with O/A.

Tomorrow I will pop down to my friendly metal supplier and raid their skip/offcuts for suitable metal the same thickness as on the Austin.

Photo annotations give details:

This second photo is of a butt weld.

Photos of underside in Album.

Geoff – Feeling well chuffed.

Edited By OuBallie on 28/04/2015 17:06:14

[BowberParticipant @bowber]

Posted by John Stevenson on 25/04/2015 15:47:26:

Andrew,

Your reply leaves me a bit puzzled as if you are good with gas then the move to TiG is virtually the same just that you are welding with an 'electric flame' as opposed to gas.

One thing I cannot get on with though are foot pedals. No one who uses them actually says if they are sitting down welding. I always stand up, two reasons. One is if I have space for a chair I have space for another machine and two, you can run faster from a standing up position.

When you stand up and are trying to use a foot pedal you are balancing on the other foot so it's all over the place.

You'd think the gas welding would help but my dad just couldn't get on with TIG, in fact he gave me his AC/DC TIG and took my small DC scratch start as he couldn't get on with it.
He was very good at gas welding and his brazed (I know it's not technically correct) frames were absolutely beautiful but he kept struggling with TIG.

Steve

[GT390Participant @gt390]

I had some inconsistency in my tig welding, especially on alloy, a friend who does it every day dropped by to see what I was doing wrong.

I had read in a book that the tip should be 3/8" proud of the ceramic shield, he poo pooed that, and said 1/4" max unless access dictates otherwise

position the job so you can rest your elbow or wrist on something

If possible, rest the edge of the ceramic on the work, this keeps the tip at a constant distance from the work, this made a huge difference in my case, works even better if you have foot-pedal power control

experiment with different gas flow, too much can be as bad as too little, shield work area from drafts or wind

grind tip lengthwise so the grinding grain goes from end to end, not around circumference, do not breath dust, it is VERY bad for you, grind the tip at a very shallow taper to a fine needle sharp point (except for alloy work)

hope this helps

Rob

 

 

Edited By GT390 on 28/04/2015 21:42:34

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Well I asked my girlfriend to show a couple of examples of her welding but she's too shy so I'll do it for her.

 

Alloy pipe to flange.

 

 

Steel weldment.

 

 

Both a bit dirty from being stood around. She told me to post them as my work just to upset you lads.

Dunno about that but sure upsets me……………..

Edited By John Stevenson on 28/04/2015 22:34:25

[WindyParticipant @windy30762]

Posted by GT390 on 28/04/2015 21:37:25:grind tip lengthwise so the grinding grain goes from end to end, not around circumference, do not breath dust, it is VERY bad for you, grind the tip at a very shallow taper to a fine needle sharp point (except for alloy work)

hope this helps

Rob

A certain tungsten is radioactive **LINK**

Have a look at tig gas lenses for tungsten stick out it might be of help.

Paul

 

 

Edited By Windy on 29/04/2015 00:10:55

Edited By Windy on 29/04/2015 00:11:23

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Steve,

I'm totally confused. So nothing new then

How did a scratch start help you Dad? It's still TIG so he would have had the same problem surely.

Rob,

I think I'm grinding my tips with too long a point, so will do shorter, and I do grind lengthwise.

Need to experiment with gas flow as 15l/min appears wasteful from what I've read, at my power settings.

No draughts in the Carport, but ready to chase leaks later today when the forecast rain hits us.

John,

BH I would give up. It's the best I've seen!

I thought my O/A was good, but compared with this it was third rate.

Must be the feminine touch.

If that was my welding I would want everyone to know and drool.

If only I could get my stick welding to produce anything other than bird droppings Feed the rod stupid!

Geoff – More TIG practice later.

Edit: Have switched to Ceriated

Edited By OuBallie on 29/04/2015 09:53:33

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

There are some details on tip angle here **LINK** along with some other stuff.

Bob

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Thank you Bob.

Perfect and just what I needed.

The 'net has certainly made info and communication unbelievable easy to get and do.

I think back to all the letters I had to write to get info, then sent orders for goods to import into SA, mainly from this country.

Geoff – How I wish the 'net, printers and copiers where available then?

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Well TIG and all other work on hold right now as two sheets of the Carport roofing where blown away soon after posting my last.

Needed to secure the other roofing sheets and then get stuff covered against the rain.

Too effing windy to even contemplate replacing them, and forecast looks abysmal for a calmish day.

Fortunately one of our building supply houses stock the sheets.

Geoff – These happenings do test one.

[Boiler BriParticipant @boilerbri]

 

Hi Geoff, looking at your photographs I can see that the end of your tungsten is blunt. You must keep a sharp long taper on the point for accurate positioning of the arc. If it's blunt the arc wanders and you end up with a poor finish.

Brian

Edited By Boiler Bri on 29/04/2015 17:02:15

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

Posted by John Stevenson on 28/04/2015 22:33:58:

Well I asked my girlfriend to show a couple of examples of her welding but she's too shy so I'll do it for her.

Bet she's hellish knitting an Aran Sweater!

On another note, interesting that quite a lot of people here are knowledgeable about the dangers of Tungsten. The government are actually considering replacing lead shot with Tungsten Matrix. (or they were, maybe someone has passed them a note by now).

graham.

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

Another point, no pun intended, when grinding tungsten's try not use the grinding wheels you use for other stuff as it may well contaminate the tungsten.

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Brian,

That photo was at the end of a run, and I did dip as previously mentioned, but do grind as soon as that happens.

Have only used a tungsten like that once, just to see what happens.

Bob,

I'm using the side of my wheel for now, until I rig up something with a diamond wheel. Not ideal, but that's all I've got right now. Maybe a cheapy grinder and diamond disc.

Hadmut on the MIGwelding Forum **LINK** has gone into production making a purpose built head for attaching to a Dremel battery drill, for grinding tungtens at different angles. Very ingenious, and as a result he's been inundated with orders from those working on-site that have no access to a grinder.

This devise not beyond the ability of most of us I would have thought.

Geoff – Even experts are not immune to dipping

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

OK so decided to dip me tungsten in, in a manner of speaking.

 

Done loads of TiG but it's always been top end, high amps working to sploge a broken foot on an electric motor / pump / gearbox  [ delete as necessary ]

 

So today and in all fairness had this bit kicking around for a week or so decided to try tigging this up.

 

It's a simple belt guard for a machine made out of new 18G steel sheet, precut to size in 3 pieces and requires two bends to make the cover. Unfortunately had no spare material to play with after buying this in so had to dive in.

 

Smallest tungsten I had 1.6mm White so Zirconiated, small cup and set to 25 amps. That was a bad mistake and had to drop to 14 amps as no way can I move that fast.

 

Sorry camera phone and probably wants a clean.

 

Close up.

 

Job finished and a quick clean up with flap wheel then a file and nice radiused corners and over to the spray shop.

Genuine first time I have welded this thin with TiG, in fact didn't even know how low it went on amps and this is one of those cheap crappy Chinese welders that everyone says are rubbish ?

 

I do know the Murex won't go that low.

Edited By John Stevenson on 11/05/2015 23:22:14

[Boiler BriParticipant @boilerbri]

Geoff sorry I have only just read your reply. I did not read all the post. If you dip in then you must change but you have already worked that out.

With practice you will be able to control the arc and the direction of it. Most units add more amps as the arc widens to keep the current flowing and stop the arc breaking. This is a steady hand operation!

One thing that is a great help is to use a good quality visor. I bought an automatic one from screw fix as I had left mine at the workshop when I was on site, initially it was ok but as time moved on it started to flash bright and dull as I was welding. I changed the batteries but it stayed the same. In the end I went back to a fixed glass type with a flip down action. Much better in my opinion.

I like to be able to see the pool of metal swirling as I move along the seam of the weld.

If you are welding thin metal, 1mm the joint must be a good fit, if so you can just fuse the two edges together. If the metal is thicker, you will need to fill it in with a filler rod. The travel of weld will depend on how easy you find it to do? Something that comes with practice. I am fortunate as I learned to weld with oxy, acetylene and rods. So moving to tig was an easy jump. Saying that, I still hold my breath when welding and find I am gasping for air by the time I have done 4" of weld😳 Never worked out why I hold my breath, it just happens.

Brian

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Brian,

I was brought up using oxy/acet as Dad used it at home, so was always using it myself.

Am finding as you, that the technique is Xferable and I too have found myself holding my breath without realising, as I did with gas I think it's because the puddle is comparably small with breathing making one 'wobble' at the wrong time. How those guys can talk and weld at the same time beats me, but I CAN whilst driving, tell a passenger what's going on round me and what I intend doing ala Tiff Needell.

Haven't got round to fuse welding butt joins yet, but did many using gas, so that experience should come back quickly, as did feeding the TIG rod.

Definitely need to experiment with power settings on thin material. I'm blowing holes as I did with gas when I first started.

Geoff – One roof sheet back up, second one now with luck.

[Jesse Hancock 1Participant @jessehancock1]

Geoff I think you are getting too anxious as we all do with something new. Get as comfortable as possible sit on a stool so as your centre of gravity is low, clamp the work so that it can't move and use your free hand to help guide the other. This unless you are using a hand held mask… In which case change it and you can become more stable using your free hand to balance.

You can tell me off now Geoff granny sucking eggs and all that…

Jesse.

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Echoing what has already been said. Comfort essential. If you feel yourself getting out of position, stop and adjust. Set up is very important. One can spend an hour setting up for five minutes of welding.

I tend to use lanthanated tungstens for everything, pretty much general purpose. A lot of the tig units out there (Sealey and the like) come with the small 1.2mm tungstens. Treat yourself to some 2.5 mm ones and collets to go with them. Also I'd definitely consider a gas lens. A decent, comfortable, ergonomic torch is a must.

If you can afford it, pulse tig is a good way to go. Really focusses the arc and allows for welding right up to or along an edge with no run away. Variable frequency is also useful for welding aluminium on AC. I've recently been welding some 316L stainless hydraulic tubing together:-

I was interested in the earlier post that I think stated using an argon/hydrogen mix for TIG brazing. I've tried TIG brazing with SIFsilbronze without much success. The SIF tips site doesn't mention using anything other than straight argon. Has anyone had any real success with it? It continues to elude me so I'd be genuinely intrigued.

Carl.

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