TIG welding sets

[Ian WelfordParticipant @ianwelford58739]

[Ian WelfordParticipant @ianwelford58739]

Thinking about buying a TIG set for occassional use.  I’ve tried MIG and that was fun (?) but complicated to set up. TIG seems to hit all the right buttons but- what’s the feeling about duty cycle? I don’t want to go about about 6mm thick steel ( only very occassionally that thick probably ) .

 

Anyone got any recommendations as to sets worth a look?

 

Probably 20 minutes continual would be all I normally need but I’d rather get longer than shorter cycle.

 

Ian

[Ian AbbottParticipant @ianabbott31222]

Watch that duty cycle bit.  Unless you’re paying good money, the cycle can be remarkably short on welding and long on waiting.  Twenty minutes continuous welding is a long time and an inexpensive unit might only give you three or four minutes welding and a thirty minute wait for the trip to reset.   Go for fan cooled, which’ll give you longer welding and shorter waiting. 

TIG is a good balance between MIG and stick welders, though I prefer the MIG.

 

Ian 

[Ian WelfordParticipant @ianwelford58739]

Thanks Ian

 

I just found the MIG a challenge to set up and as TIG is now not much more  thought it worth the money. The idea of hand feeding the rods in appeals as you can adjust things easier  .

 

any guidance on reliable makes?

 

Ian

[mgjParticipant @mgj]

I don’t know what your welding experience is…..

 

Well as always, what are you going to weld.

 

Some materials require the electrode positive, some negative. 

 

You will have to change your gas of course, and you have to know your settings, same as for anything else..

 

Honestly, I’m very surprised to hear you say that MIG is difficult. MIG with the right wire matched to your card, and using Argoshield  (Argon Oxygen mix) is about a simple as point and squirt for mild steel. But you do have to set amps and feed rate and the two are interlinked.

 

I don’t know whether you have done gas, but TIG is only electric gas – you are dipping and touching and adjusting heat settings just the same.  TIG is not suitable for thicker sections, and while in the hands of a good man it produces very neat welds, in the hands of the inexperienced or a barbarian it produces rubbish.  Position welds – vertical up down and inverted are MUCH easier with MIG.

 

MIG is normally faster with higher metal recovery rates too, and very often less heat input, (depending on how its used). 

 

Are you sure you have given MIG an adequate trial? For most who want to weld mild in average conditions, MIG with Argoshield is difficult to beat for speed and ease of use. I would have thought that someone who had difficulty setting up MIG would not take to TIG very quickly. TIG is a bit of an art to get right. 

 

 

As Ian says, a sensible TIG set which you will need if you want ot go to 6mm plate of any size,  (or even an HF unit to go on a MMA box) is quite expensive.

 

 An HF unit might be worth looking at, because then you get an stick welder which is more suited to thicker plate, and the TIG for thinner stuff which it is better at. Some HF units are not suitable for the alis and light alloys of this world. Its not that there is anyhting wrong with them for steel – they just don’t provide the right condions at the electrode for the light alloys.

Edited By meyrick griffith-jones on 30/10/2009 13:43:12

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Duty cycle is a closely guarded secret and is based on a magic number of 10.

 

That’s 10 minutes.

So a duty cycle of 50% is 5 minutes welding and 5 minutes rest.

Some of the cheaper welders only have a 10 or 15% duty cycle at full chat and some don’t even list the 100% rating.

 

Modern inverter welders are far superior on duty cycles as they have no transformers but are usually dearer but  more economical to run.

 

My old 200 amp AC/DC TiG was 440 volts in at 19,000 amps and the new one is 240 volts at 20 amps.

 

With the old one you could get more heat off the gimbal on the electric meter than the torch.

 

John S

 

 

[Anthony GibsonParticipant @anthonygibson71082]

I have been looking as well, although tempt to get gas instead (Did a night class on welding and really enjoyed the gas welding and I could make it look neat!!!!).  I don’t do enough Mig welding to be able to produce good looking welds every time, first time.

 

Aluminium TIG welding needs AC/DC, the small ‘cheap’ units from Machine Mart and the like are DC only.

 

There are some units from China on Ebay that i have been tempted by, AC/DC TIG and Plasma cutter in one box. 

[Ian AbbottParticipant @ianabbott31222]

This might not be applicable to you, but one thing that I like about the MIG (other than the simplicity after you get used to the set up) is that I can wedge myself against something and use two hands to hold the gun.  The bod and hands don’t necessarily do what I intend them to do and the TIG does need a steady hand.  The older members of the group will probably relate to this.

 

Ian 

[HasBeanParticipant @hasbean]

Gents, may I point you to this site.

Lots of info here. Mig is ‘easier’ to do but a good looking weld may be useless, as opposed to MMA where generally if it looks good it is.

If you have gas experience TIG is easier to learn and produces very high quality welds but takes practice (no I still can’t TIG properly) Beware of some units, AC/DC jobs can be had for £1K but please check the aftersales backup first.

 

Paul

[Ray LyonsParticipant @raylyons29267]

I have had several MIG welders and my advise would be to buy the best you can afford, staying away from the DIY market. In my opinion, these small welders are made to a price and do not have the fine controls available on the more expensive machines. You could try buying a secondhand professional machine from a reputable dealer which would be more than adquate for home use and produce good welds easily.

 

Regarding the”three in one” welders as seen on EBay, my advise is to stay clear of them. I have one which will do MMA,TIG and Plasma cutting, none of them well. Like all combination machines they don’t do any function well and it is better to spend the extra money to buy individual welders.

 

Ray

 

[Ian WelfordParticipant @ianwelford58739]

Thanks one and all for the advice. I may reconsider MIG again as have really only scratched the surface ( often literally as the B@@@@ wire shot out). Maybe a bit more playtime with a friends MIG might convert me?

 

I just really liked the finish I saw from TIG and electirc gas ( as you say Meyrick) really appealed to me. Having 2 young sons I just did not fancy the fire hazard of oxy acet ( or the costs) so go to a friends farm when needed.

 

I still would welcome some recommendations on makes guys!

 

Ian

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Ian, I don’t think anyone can recommend one in all fairness.

 

I have just been thru this because my big set won’t go low enough for some thinner work I now have to do.

Not wanting to throw 2K at a welder knowing I won’t get that return on it I looked at the cheaper imports and did my homework.

 

Problem was 50% say they are crap / blow up / catch fire / catch AIDS off them [ delete as required ] and 50% say they are the best thing since sliced bread and their mate who’s a welder says it’s better than his at work, so who do you believe ?

 

Taking the fact this is for work and ‘technically’ it has a 12 month guarantee if I spend £500 notes for one off Ebay and it lasts 2 years that is actually less than the cost of hiring two gas bottles so it’s a consumable. Anything over two years is a bonus and while the big set is still working the small set will be OK.

 

I’ll let you know in two years if that thinking is flawed

 

So far it’s worked well and the quality of the weld is far superior to the  non square wave, non pulsed, non cheap to run big set .

 

John S.

[mgjParticipant @mgj]

Ian – MIG is dead easy.

 

1. Get the right gas for mild. You can use CO2 (cheap) but it spatters like mad. Best is Argoshield 5, an for light work, and Argoshield 10 (AP will do equivalents) for something else I can’t remember.

 

2. If you can afford it get an arc operated face mask. Set up in the clear, and it darkens automatically. Helpful but not essential.

 

3. Must have- pair wire nippers.

 

 

So, connect earth, to trial bit of metal (clean and about 1/8″ thick for a start.) Press trigger to check for wire feed – listen for gas (purge line). Nip wire off 1/4 – 3/8″ from nozzle. with nippers to give nice sharp end for arc to strike on.

 

Set feed and amps  according to makers instructions – try welding. Basically if the wire stabs forwards and/or burns back in an intermittent action you should up the wire feed (or turn down the amps). ie its striking and burning back so the feed rate is not enough to maintain a continuous weld.

 

If the wire sticks into the weld hard then turn down the feed rate. Its coming in too fast.

 

You should get a steady frying bacon noise, and when you stop, you should get a small blob on the wire (rule of thumb). As with all things amps wire feed and your speed along the work are all interlinked, but its pretty accommodating. Most welders have a series of steps for amps, and so assuming you are in the right step or range, its easier to adjust feed.

 

 Experiment – its not that difficult.

 

 

Going for a decent weld, assuming you don’t have a welder with a special start setting and a dwell for finish, which most of us don’t.

 

 

Start a little way into the weld, come BACK, and then go forwards over your start. This ensures you have adequate penetration at the beginning of the weld. At the end, don’t just stop. Dwell for a second or so, then shut off. Stops that dimple, which is not great technique.

 

 

Vertical down is a matter of getting settings right and it’ll run perfect. Vertical up is little triangles.

 

Once you have had a go and can get the thing to run you can start moving the torch left and right to get leg lengths right as specified on  the drawing. 

 

Seemples. 

 

TIG will produce beautiful welds, and manganese bronze too. On ali and magnesium its the dogs. But you need to do a bit of practise or train under instruction. Its very easy to get it imperially wrong!!!! Especially in thin ali, or anything else thats hot short. And its going to cost a grand or better to get a good fully versatile set..

 

 

Edited By meyrick griffith-jones on 01/11/2009 22:59:17

Edited By meyrick griffith-jones on 01/11/2009 23:04:05

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