Threaded milling cutters

[Compulsive purchaserParticipant @compulsivepurchaser]

[Compulsive purchaserParticipant @compulsivepurchaser]

I recently bought a two year old second hand but unused Warco VM14 milling machine (I couldn’t refuse it at £250!)

I have also been given a selection of various used Galtona milling cutters, all of which are tapered but with threaded portions at the top – these appear to be in a few different sized tapers. I have just purchased “Milling for beginners” book which does have these threaded type cutters pictured but I am still unsure what I need to fit them to the MT2 taper of the VM14, or do I start afresh with a new set of tools?

Thanks.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Sounds like they are a Morse taper shank milling cutter which you don't see much these days, assuming they have the same MT2 taper as your machine they should fit into the end of the spindle and you then need a suitably threaded drawbar to pull them tight into the taper. If they are smaller cutters with say an MT1 taper then you will also need a reducing sleeve. If they are use dthen it may be better to start with new cutters and a new holding method such as ER collet chuck.

If you can post a photo that would help to confirm if they are MT Shank. How to add photos

[Mike HurleyParticipant @mikehurley60381]

I agree with JasonB, rather than mess about with these cutters, I would look to getting a good collet system ( I use ER25 with my VM14) then you will be a ble to economically purchase good new plain shaft cutters to suit your requirements at reasonable prices from loads of suppliers.

Tip – While you're at it, would suggest you get the 'optional' collet nut with a ball bearing insert, only a tiny bit bigger than standard but allow much tighter fitting of cutters.

Reagards. Mike

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

The MT2 sized ones will be worth keeping for when the ER chuck takes up too much room. Assuming you mean threaded internally and that you can still take a shaving off a fingernail with them.

[Compulsive purchaserParticipant @compulsivepurchaser]

Apologies, my mind was failing me, the cutters are not tapered, they are all straight with a threaded end. There are various ones marked “STR-SHK Sllot drill” made by Osborn, which I presume stands for “straight shank”. They all vary in size so still unsure of what chuck system to hold them.

thanks

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Sounds like the Clarkson type. If they are ,did you get a collet holder with the machine.

Steve.

P.S Try concentrate how to post pictures. Makes answering problems , soo much easier.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Although traditionally held in an Autolock type holder as Steve mentions they will work just as well in an ER collet chuck and can also be used in morse taper collets direct into the spindle.

For all round usefulness I would opt for an ER collet chuck and basic range of collets to start with if there was no suitable holder with the machine.

You might also want to have another read of page 23 where shank types are covered 

 

Edited By JasonB on 16/04/2021 14:09:39

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

As the milling cutters would appear to be straight shanked with Clarkson threads the most useful holding arrangement would be an ER chuck with suitable collets. If your machine is the WM14 then the ER25 size is probably right for you. This is the size I use for my WM14. A full set of collets is a bit pricey but you can buy the collets individually as required. ER collets will happily hold straight shank, Clarkson threaded or Weldon shanked cutters without difficulty. Can also be used to hold twist drills, reamers and the like saving the need to keep changing chucks.

John

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

You only need 4 sizes of collet

6mm 10mm 12mm 16mm

[DC31kParticipant @dc31k]

Posted by Dave Halford on 16/04/2021 14:26:11:

You only need 4 sizes of collet

6mm 10mm 12mm 16mm

I have those. I tried a 1/2" shank cutter in the 12mm one and it was a little tight. The collet did not seem much use afterwards so it might be an expensive way to work. Similarly, the 16mm one was a bit loose and it was difficult to remove the mill after welding it into place.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Posted by DC31k on 16/04/2021 14:59:48:

Posted by Dave Halford on 16/04/2021 14:26:11:

You only need 4 sizes of collet

6mm 10mm 12mm 16mm

I have those. I tried a 1/2" shank cutter in the 12mm one and it was a little tight. The collet did not seem much use afterwards so it might be an expensive way to work. Similarly, the 16mm one was a bit loose and it was difficult to remove the mill after welding it into place.

These sizes refer to Metric sized cutters, if you want to use Imperial sized cutters (as you say you have a1/2" = 12.7mm and so forced in an oversize shaft), you will need the appropriate sizes.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

If the size on the cutter is metric, you will need metric collets, and with inch/fraction sizes you will need inch size collets, they are NOT interchangable. That holds good for any variety of threaded collet.

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Posted by old mart on 16/04/2021 15:37:35:

If the size on the cutter is metric, you will need metric collets, and with inch/fraction sizes you will need inch size collets, they are NOT interchangable. That holds good for any variety of threaded collet.

Not entirely, ER collets have an operating range of 1mm (except the smallest where the range is .5mm) Therefore provided an imperial cutting tool is within the closing range it will be held properly provided the chuck is tightened correctly. Similarly with imperial collets and metric tooling.

It must of course be said that at the limit of closing it needs plenty of applied torque to close the collet down. A cutter larger than the maximum collet size should never be forced in or likely the collet will be damaged.

John

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I think a little clarity is needed before the OP gets confused.

Dave Halford's statement is only true if you are using metric screwed cutters (small ones at that) if you want to use imperial screwed shank or larger than 16mm metric/imperial you need the appropriate collets and holder.

DC31K was just picking fault with Daves post se above and having a bit of fun

Kwil did not realise DC31K was only joking about putting imperial screwed cutters into metric collets

Old Mart was talking specifically about screwed cutters and their specific collets

John did not realise Old Mart was just talking about screwed ones but does highlight the fact you can hold metric and imperial cutters with cylindrical shanks of various types all in an ER system

Edited By JasonB on 16/04/2021 20:30:00

[Anonymous]

Metric ER collets are fine for imperial cutters but you need to use the next larger size rather than going smaller. (The 1 mm tolerance of the collet is a minus on the nominal diameter). For a 1/2" cutter, you should use a 13mm collet …. certainly not 12mm.

That works reasonably well when starting out but you will find that, when you loosen the nut of say, a 13mm collet with a 1/2" cutter, the cutter will immediately drop so make sure you have a wood block or whatever underneath it. (the are a couple of other size pairs that do this too).

Assuming that you start with a metric collet set, after a time you might want to buy a few individual imperial sizes of collet to take care of a few these "loose" cases. For example, a 1/2" cutter will not immediately drop from a 1/2" collet when the nut is loosened (although I still put a wood block under it) – and as someone mentioned it's easier to tighten too.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Dave Halford on 16/04/2021 14:26:11:

You only need 4 sizes of collet

6mm 10mm 12mm 16mm

That's extremely limiting.

A full set of ER collets isn't expensive and means you can use any tool that is within your system's range. Not having to swap to the drill chuck every time you need to drill a couple of holes would justify the extra cost as an example.

It makes buying ER collet blocks an even more sensible purchase too.

I always buy the set when there is one, as experience has shown I will always need the 'you'll never use that size' at odd times and it's really frustrating and time-wasting to have only half the tool.

If cost was an issue, then I would happily forego some of the other must haves, as I have some and have never used them; my 123 blocks and machinists jacks just take up room in the toolbox.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Thank you, Jason, for the clarification, I was indeed refering to threaded collets, the er collets have a range of usable sizes, although I would prefer to fit a 12mm shank in an 11-12 rather than a 12-13, for instance.

The screwed shank collets do not have any leeway at all, the difference between 16mm and 5/8" collets sometimes requires measuring the cutter shank to be sure

[Bernard WrightParticipant @bernardwright25932]

Whilst a few of you champion the ER system, especially for holding material to work on, and so do I.

However I found it wanting holding milling cutters above 3/8"/10mm.

I was making some new milling vice jaws, and using a 20mm long spiral cutter, left it on auto, only to find the cutter had pulled out of the well tightened ER32 Collet, and left a tapered slope to the jaw base ledge.

Luckily there was suffient material in both jaws, to level things up with a Clarkson Collet Chuck, using same cutter.

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Plain shank milling cutters are pretty much industry standard now, I much prefer them over threaded shanks.

Tony

[Richard S2Participant @richards2]

TWF, The collet chuck system you require is the 'Posilock' listed on Warco's website. Item not available at present, but offers a link to alternative.

Check out this link (hope it works) – Collet Chuck set 2mt Posilock

As already mentioned, you need to select a set to suit whatever cutters you have, either metric or imperial.

[Author]

Posts