This months MEW are 3 CNC features two too many

[BrianParticipant @brian]

Thought I would add my 10 cents, three CNC articals in one month is OTT.

 

Brian

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

With all the slagging off on CNC articles in this Topic I thought I would read the latest “offending” article. There are a number of unexplained different values used from the target values as set out, however the worst aspect by far is the illegibility of the screen shots of MACH3 which, if clearer and larger, would have greatly helped comprehension. In addition comment is not made about the bigend split and how it was held during arc milling of the lower surface where it crosses the counterbored clamp bolt holes.

Edited By KWIL on 22/05/2011 11:44:26

[Steve Talbot 1Participant @stevetalbot1]

I have been a subscriber to MEW since issue 1, but did not renew my subscription earlier this year because of the number of CNC article.

 

After a discussion with the editor I did renew my subscription on the understanding that there were to be very few CNC articles in future and a separate CNC mag. was under consideration

 

I was NOT pleased therefore to see 3 CNC articles in the June edition issue 177

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Steve

All I have done is concluded the CNC articles started.

regards David

[BrianParticipant @brian]

Thank You David, can we all asume that CNC is now excluded from MEW in the future?

 

regards

Brian

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Steve Talbot 1 on 30/05/2011 15:00:59:NC articles in future and a separate CNC mag. was under consideration

 

I was NOT pleased therefore to see 3 CNC articles in the June edition issue 177

 

 

Perhaps I should be displeased that there were more than that number of articles on lathes and milling operations in the last one ?

 

Look lets get this into perspective, you, me, as in every single reader is not unique. If you feel you are then write your own magazine.

 

The mag has to cater for all disciplines and skill levels and sometime there will be one issue that doesn’t have the exact content you are looking for but you have to take it over a period of time.

 

Just done a quick check issues 164 to 170 have no CNC related articles in them at all but I didn’t see these followers getting upset.

 

Why is it only the armchair flat earth society that get wound up ?

 

John S.

[TomfileryParticipant @tomfilery]

What an eye opener this thread had been!

 

Having now pored over the offending issue, it is hard to see what the fuss is about. I don’t have a cnc machine, but wouldn’t hesitate to make use of technology to make production of muliple items simpler and less time consuming.

 

I thought one article in particular, lost the plot completely, as it was neither aimed at the newby, nor had much to offer the exerienced, nor really sold us on the benefits of cnc (and actually, unintentionally made it all seem gobbledygook!).

 

Perhaps many readers just can’t see the link between starting something as a CAD drawing and having a finished product delivered to your door (or machined on your bench if you have the kit). A friend of mine makes G scale railway items from his own design of brass etchings using Corel Draw to produce the artwork, at lower cost and with less effort than it would take to fold up his own brass from scratch.

 

I find the current trend in some articles to avoid spending money at all costs, frankly disturbing. OK, we all like to save a few bob, not to mention take pleasure from producing something from scratch, but haven’t we now had enough articles on making collets for less than 10p? Some of it is downright bodging (e.g. the epoxy repaired drive wheel in one of the cnc atricles). And my workshop doesn’t have 4.5 inch dia steel stock sat in the stock box – I wonder how many do? Perhaps the reader survey ought to have tried to capture the size of machines we all use, so that articles might be better aimed at the bulk of the readership.

 

For the moment it looks as if the luddites have won the day (judging by the demand for the Ed to say there will be no further cnc articles), but I would like articles on current and new technology to continue to be featured in MEW – if only to shake up the old farts (though at 55, I guess I count as one of them already).

[Mark DickinsonParticipant @markdickinson21936]

I’m actually shocked that no one has bitched and twined about the picture of the car on the front cover and the article on page 34, I mean what ever next? Tractors on the cover of Model Engineer?

 

Note to the Ed, please don’t stop the CNC articles. I don’t have a CNC machine, and I may never have one but I find it interesting to read different methods to skin a cat. 

Edited By Mark Dickinson on 30/05/2011 17:38:34

[IanHParticipant @ianh]

Can I add my support to the comment about bodging – I have been astonished in recent months at the quality of some of work publicised by the magazine both in terms of technical content and execution.

 

As well as encouraging new starts, I think the magazine should be publicising outstanding achievements and inspiring us to constantly push the boudaries of what is possible in the “Model Engineers Workshop”.

 

 

[Fowlers FuryParticipant @fowlersfury]

I took the trouble to write twice to the editor about too much CNC and to support another complainant about too many CNC and Dave Fenner articles, but received no reply. The final straw was the July 2010 ‘Scribe a line’ where 8 letters were shown “Reasons to subscribe” and this was followed by “Reasons not to subscribe 1”. David Clark wrote under this heading “. . . . . but as the gentleman concerned was not renewing his subscription I see no reason to publish it here as he won’t be able to read it“.

OK, that’s his opinion of open discussion but it’s not mine.

I didn’t renew my subscription and I know of others who took the same action.

I’m expecting neither support nor sympathy, but just offering a personal reflection.

If the circulation figures for MEW are going up then the content must appeal to new readers.

 

[Tony JeffreeParticipant @tonyjeffree56510]

Posted by Brian on 30/05/2011 16:46:58:

Thank You David, can we all asume that CNC is now excluded from MEW in the future?

 

No.

 

Regards,

Tony

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Brian on 30/05/2011 16:46:58:

Thank You David, can we all assume that CNC is now excluded from MEW in the future?

 

regards

Brian

 

 

 

Only as long as they leave steam trains out of ME…………….

 

John S.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

No, not excluded.

There is a demand for it.

regards david

 

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

I was taking the mickey.

Basically I was saying correspondence closed.

I have to listen to all readers and many want CNC articles.

 

The email was quite nasty.

There was no need for that.

I do listen to readers who email me.

regards David

 

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

Now that is a good idea, tractors on the cover.

Watch this space.

 

Seriously though.

Most Tractor magazines have a circulation of over 50,000.

There is clearly a need for tractor related articles in MEW.

Any offers to write them?

regards david

 

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Articles on new technology are welcome.

After all, in 20 years people will be complaining that all the articles will be about 3D printing and other technology not yet invented.

I bet in 2031, all the readers will be asking to go back to the good old days of CNC articles.

regards david

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

I can only publish what I receive.

I do try to cater for all skills (or lack of) and I like to put the odd article in that looks a bit rough but works.

We can’t all be expert machinists. We have to show some of the boilermaking and bodge it type of work as well.

I got lots of complaints about the Side Lever enigne that was in Model Engineer but I also got some compliments and a toolmaker said he was part way through it.

I don’t think badly presented articles (what they finished object looks like) discourage readers, I think they encourage them to have a go.

regards david

 

[Anonymous]

Posted by David Clark 1 on 30/05/2011 20:19:48:

I got lots of complaints about the Side Lever enigne that was in Model Engineer but I also got some compliments and a toolmaker said he was part way through it.

 

 

Good grief; on what gounds? Some people seem to whinge just for the sake of it.

 

I thought it was an interesting series, nicely presented and photographed, and shows what can be done at the smaller end of the equipment range. I also assume that English is not the author’s native language, which makes it all the more impressive.

 

I’ll never build one of the engines, but nevertheless I always read the articles as I find them instructive.

 

Regards,

 

Andrew

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Andrew

On the grounds it does not look like a prototype engine, round head screws, overall finish was poor and brass for the conecting rod pin.

regards David

 

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Forums, email and the internet have a lot to answer for.

 

Years ago the Herberts who wanted to would go into the shed and do their best, nowadays the Ruperts of this world stay welded to an armchair sharpening pencils and mice like demented souls.

 

John S.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by David Clark 1 on 30/05/2011 21:06:08:

Hi Andrew

On the grounds it does not look like a prototype engine, round head screws, overall finish was poor and brass for the conecting rod pin.

regards David

 

 

Hi, well I think it looks quite an elegant engine in its own way, even without being painted.

 

I thought this was a simple steam series, and the author did say it was not be considered a true scale model.

 

I’m sure that most people who don’t like the shape of the screws can put in alternatives, and choose thier own materials for pins ect.

 

Regards Nick.

[Tony JeffreeParticipant @tonyjeffree56510]

Posted by Tomfilery on 30/05/2011 17:30:24:

For the moment it looks as if the luddites have won the day (judging by the demand for the Ed to say there will be no further cnc articles), but I would like articles on current and new technology to continue to be featured in MEW – if only to shake up the old farts (though at 55, I guess I count as one of them already).

Hi Tom –

 

At 55, you can definitely count yourself as one of the young farts

 

Good to see a vote for a broad cross-section of technology, old and new; without a reasonable amount of attention to the new technology, I fear we will all become old farts before our time.

 

For my part, I will continue to contribute articles to MEW based on the stuff that I do in the workshop (when I have the tme and patience to do so). That will continue to be a mixture of old and new; my most recent article (Worden grinder construction) was definitely old technology, but even that caused more than a modicum of controversy amongst those that seem to have had a total sense of humour bypass. Ho hum.

 

The article I am currently working on will probably cause the luddites a good deal of indigestion, as it relates to simpler alternatives to running full CNC on a lathe. Does that bother me? Frankly, no. To me, there are two kinds of engineers (model or otherwise) in this world; the ones that already know it all, and for whom there is nothing new that can be remotely interesting, and the ones that (regardless of their level of skill) recognize that there is always something new and interesting to find out about, that will enrich their knowledge and understanding of the craft, whether or not they choose to make use of it themselves. As far as I can tell, it is mostly the former kind of engineers that seem to be having a problem with the amount of, or even the presence of, CNC articles in the mag; frankly, I am surprised that they bothered to subscribe in the first place, and losing them from the subscription list would be a net gain both to them and to the remaining readership.

 

Regards,

Tony

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Long post so go get a coffee.

 

I feel that this has all been taken out of context. Looking at a generic issue of MEW there are 10 project subjects per issue and this isn’t counting editors page, scribe a line etc.

 

So from issues 164 to 170 that’s 80 projects without a mention of CNC and after that we have 1 or 2 out of the 10 until we reach 177 which by a fluke had 3 but still wasn’t 33%

 

Now amongst the previous 1,770 projects [ approx ] since the mag started and that’s very conservative as the early issues had something like 15 articles in them per issue there have been umpteen articles on toolposts, lathe stops, tool and cutter grinders but no one has bitched over these.

 

David has mentioned that the American Digital Machinist magazine has a quarterly print run of 15,000 so there must be a demand out there for this subject matter. We don’t have a specialist magazine for this but and it’s a big BUT, the magazine is called MODEL ENGINEERS WORKSHOP and like it or not these machines are now in, wait for it, model engineers workshops.

 

Now to put my other hat on. When the Sieg range of machines were being thought about we, as in Ketan at ARC and myself were doing CNC conversion kits for the X3. We were asked by Sieg to help out with a turnkey machine which we were initially loath to do as that took away the kit project. However reflecting on this if we didn’t someone else would, so the first KX1 was built here and shipped to China.

 

When these were ready at the new factory setup just to do the CNC machines we went over to shake them out and sort out support etc.

Support was to be in the form of a web based forum with links to the various agents around the world. ARC became the sole UK and European agent with some sub agents in Europe. other countries like America had their agents and certain countries that were lacking agents were dealt with direct from the factory.

 

For every machine sold details were passed to me for support purposes, the exceptions being internal sales in China and Russia which has bought a large number for training schools. I do not get the Russian numbers but can guess from the blocks of serial numbers missing.

 

There are now in excess of 3,000 KX machines out there since they were introduced and this doesn’t cover copies like Syil, How Mou, and Novacon so just what the total is no one knows.

 

This also doesn’t cover any home built or converted machines or the literally 1,000’s of routers which all work on the same principle.

 

Add to this the 15,000 readership of the only magazine for these people and you will see they are a force that will not go away whether you like it or not.

 

Now if Myford for instance were able to sell this many instead of their rumoured 18 per year perhaps they could call the shots ?

 

John S.

Edited By John Stevenson on 30/05/2011 23:31:36

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Ned Ludd ( a mythical character anyway) was not against new machinery and technology. He, and his followers, were against being exploited and thrown out of work and home by the introduction of the new machines. A subtle difference.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Gordon W on 31/05/2011 09:40:30:

Ned Ludd ( a mythical character anyway) was not against new machinery and technology. He, and his followers, were against being exploited and thrown out of work and home by the introduction of the new machines. A subtle difference.

 

 

 

That subtle I fail to see the relevance seeing as this is a hobby and how do you exploit someone who does this for fun and free ?

Even if it wasn’t it’s already happened with no noticeable effects.

 

When was the last time you saw industry advertising for a Centre Lathe Turner or a Milling Machine operator ?

 

John S.

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