This months MEW are 3 CNC features two too many

[Tony JeffreeParticipant @tonyjeffree56510]

Posted by Chris Trice on 17/05/2011 22:13:34:

So many people getting their panties in a bunch over what exactly? Have the editorial staff threatened to kill the readers children or burn down their houses? Three CNC articles in one magazine. Hardly the crime of the century is it? I get the feeling that no matter what the editor says, he’s going to be attacked by those who clearly have an axe from some other occasion to grind. You kids carry on fighting in the sand pit. I’ll be with the adults reading the other threads. By all means express an opinion chaps but try a bit of civility and there may be more chance of your opinion being listened to instead of trying to score points over each other.

Edited By Chris Trice on 17/05/2011 22:15:08

Gosh Chris – just think, with a shade more time, in a trice, even, you could have written that post so that it was just a teensy weensy bit more supercillious and patronising…

 

Regards,

Tony

Edited By Tony Jeffree on 17/05/2011 23:20:20

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

I meant it to be and don’t apologise for it. Quite a few seem to be using it just to take potshots. Some, like yourself are civil and constructive but many aren’t. This isn’t rocket science. It revolves around two things. 1. Should CNC articles be included? Personally I think yes, it doesn’t hurt and 2. the question pitched at the start of the thread, is three CNC related articles too much for one issue? Arguably yes also. It seems that that is the prevailing consensus amongst the vast majority whether individuals are interested or not in CNC. It’s easy to criticise if a magazine doesn’t get each issue pitch perfect, but somewhat harder to do the job better. And I’m sorry but looking in from outside some people do need to regain a sense of proportion or in extreme cases have their heads banged together. On any other forum this would qualify as a popcorn thread, i.e. sit back in your seat with your packet of popcorn and enjoy the entertainment as various parties spar with each other.

 

Edited for typos.

Edited By Chris Trice on 17/05/2011 23:28:03

[Lawrie Alush-JaggsParticipant @lawriealush-jaggs50843]

Ahhh haaa haaa haaa haaa ha!

 

What a load of old cobblers!.. Get back into the workshop and make something.

Amazing the energy people expend on somethng so tirvial.

Also amazing how offended some people seem to be.

 

Five weeks ago 10,000 people snuffed it when a ten metre wall of water flattened everything.

An then like the deaf, dumb and blind kid who got AIDS for Christmas, they have the mangled remains of a nuclear reactor to deal with.

 

Two months ago an area of Australia larger than Britain had to take swimming lessons.

A couple of weeks earlier, the middle of the South Island of New Zealand fell off.

 

Life is too short and there are too many sunsets to watch, to many roses to smell, too many models that need to be engineered to worry about three (3!) CNC articles in a small magazine with a small readership.

 

Now having expended all that energy on a trivial matter, I go.

 

Lawrie

[Anthony KnightsParticipant @anthonyknights16741]

I have spent most of my working life in electronics. For a lot of that time, I also used to do this as as a hobby and subscribed to certain magazines in this field. I gave it up when the majority of the projects in said magazines used a few interface components and a PIC which one had to program (boring). As for work, I spent most of the last 15 years running round the country re- booting PC and microprocessor base products which had crashed for no apparent reason. Upon retirement, I had no desire to have anything to do with computers apart from using my laptop on the internet.

I was given basic training in the use of machine tools in my first job after leaving school and was subsequently employed briefly as a capstan lathe operator and cylindrical grinder. Moved to electronices and never looked back (until now).

Bought cheepo Eastern lathe and Mill/Drill before I retired and have spent the time since retirement organising my workshop, making tools and accessories and have just completed my first (small) steam engine.

I like to do all my machining manually and having to program an expensive piece of kit to do it for me would take all the fun out of my hobby. Any CNC articles do no not hold any interest for me and as far as I am concerned are a complete waste of space.

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Hear hear Lawrie.

 

Anthony, I know where you’re coming from (I’m an all manual sort of guy at the moment) but I don’t object to CNC articles. I wouldn’t expect to deny the soap opera addicts their fix by demanding the TV companies stop screening that waste of airtime (in my opinion) that is ‘Eastenders’.

 

One doesn’t have to understand or share someone’s interests. Just respect that they have them and are just as entitled as the next person to be catered for. I don’t take it personally if a magazine runs an article about something I have no interest in. The magazine is a wholly private enterprise. This may come as a surprise to many but you have no entitlement to dictate what appears in it. You can express an opinion and tell the editors what you’d like to see, and they in turn if they’re smart will welcome those opinions because they want the magazine to be popular and thus sell well but the content remains their responsibility and the direction they wish to take it in is their affair. If that swerves too far from anyone’s personal taste then you have the freedom keep your money in your pocket and seek out another publication that more closely matches your personal requirement.

 

I think the balance of MEW is pretty good. One man’s dull issue is another man’s perfect issue but their opinions are based on nothing more than personal preference. The magazine has to cater to beginners and the more experienced, the CNC convert and the traditionalist. Articles might be Myford heavy but Myfords are popular. Sorry if that annoys non Myford fans but that’s the reality. The magazine has to appeal to the largest audience possible but there’s only a limited amount of space in each issue. Not every article is going to hit the spot.

Edited By Chris Trice on 18/05/2011 02:47:20

[adyParticipant @ady]

I think the balance of MEW is pretty good. One man’s dull issue is
another man’s perfect issue but their opinions are based on nothing
more than personal preference. The magazine has to cater to beginners
and the more experienced, the CNC convert and the traditionalist.
Articles might be Myford heavy but Myfords are popular. Sorry if that
annoys non Myford fans but that’s the reality. The magazine has to
appeal to the largest audience possible but there’s only a limited
amount of space in each issue. Not every article is going to hit the
spot.

 

——————————————————-

 

As an ‘outsider’ it sounds like MEW has a bit of a fishes and loaves job to do which would means the readership will have to live with a situation where only certain issues over the year will hit the spot.

 

The other thing is we appear to have is a magazine which still heavily promotes a British product which continues to be made in Britain.

Articles might be Myford heavy but Myfords are popular.

This is a unique almost historical scenario, most (99%?) of British products have been consigned either to the bin of history or foreign production.

They don’t even make a Cadburys chocolate bar in this country anymore.

 

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

As a newbie, subscriber and non-Myford/Tom Senior/Boxford etc owner I have simple choices when it comes to relevant content in the magazine. My budget simply won’t stretch to CNC machines. Having bought a lathe (1947 vintage) and mill (90’s vintage) my money is now going on tooling and stock. I loathe Windows and have a Windows-less home for all our PCs and laptops so if CNC runs only on that pile of rubbish I can’t actually use it.

 

At the end of the day if MEW doesn’t meet my interest I will cancel my subscription. Don’t we all have that choice?

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Again a few notes / replies in no particular order.

 

CNC is not reliant on windows, can run on windows, Linux, or many forms of generic controllers not associated with either.

 

Take the Divisionmaster that drives a rotary table as an example. Is this CNC ? It doesn’t have handles or a computer but it uses stepper motors to perform a very boring and fault fraught job, it doesn’t have to be fitted to a CNC machine.

It also speeds the process up of producing a finished project with less chance to cock it up. Spoken from a guy who once milled 41 – 1/2 splines on an Alfa Romero half shaft .

My Division master and 6″ Hoffman dividing head live permanently on a full manual Bridgeport mill.

 

As to balance and content you have to look at the magazine not as an individual issue but taken over a range of issues. Because of the diverse interests we all have there are going to be some issues that just don’t click for one person but turns out to be a very good issue for someone else. There are probably about 40 disciplines that can be listed and only 13 or so can be covered in an issue so someone is going to loose out.

 

What happens as well is interests change and what was passed over some months / years ago now becomes of interest.

 

For people with active minds as well they may see something associated with say a clock that lights a bulb up as they think I can use a variation of this on my new secret supa-dupa gizmo even though they have no interest in clocks.

 

I spotted a part at Harrogate that would be ideal for a machine tool drive and I’m in the process of searching more info out on it.

 

Lawrie made a valid point about how insignificant this whole thread is so I must vacate this armchair to another contributor and go get some real work done, it maybe manual or it may be CNC, just depends what’s been thrown outside the door during the night.

 

John S.

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Posted by John Coates on 18/05/2011 06:43:31:

… My budget simply won’t stretch to CNC machines…

 

… I loathe Windows and have a Windows-less home for all our PCs and laptops so if CNC runs only on that pile of rubbish I can’t actually use it…

 

 

 

I see what you’re saying, John.

 

But if CNC only runs on Windows, then I conclude that the other Operating Systems either aren’t up to the task, or they don’t have a user-base that is large enough to warrant development of the technology.

 

My experience of using Windows is a positive one. Without it, I wouldn’t be able to do what I do with CAD, CAM and CNC, because there is no affordable equivalent at this time.

 

 

Martin.

 

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Posted by John Stevenson on 18/05/2011 09:16:10:

Again a few notes / replies in no particular order.

 

“SNIP”

 

As to balance and content you have to look at the magazine not as an individual issue but taken over a range of issues. Because of the diverse interests we all have there are going to be some issues that just don’t click for one person but turns out to be a very good issue for someone else. There are probably about 40 disciplines that can be listed and only 13 or so can be covered in an issue so someone is going to loose out.

 

What happens as well is interests change and what was passed over some months / years ago now becomes of interest.

 

For people with active minds as well they may see something associated with say a clock that lights a bulb up as they think I can use a variation of this on my new secret supa-dupa gizmo even though they have no interest in clocks.

 

I spotted a part at Harrogate that would be ideal for a machine tool drive and I’m in the process of searching more info out on it.

 

Lawrie made a valid point about how insignificant this whole thread is so I must vacate this armchair to another contributor and go get some real work done, it maybe manual or it may be CNC, just depends what’s been thrown outside the door during the night.

 

John S.

 

 

My points exactly. No magazine satisfies every reader 100% every issue. It’s not possible and an unreasonable expectation. If one’s life isn’t complete without reading something centred around a specialised area of personal interest, there are publications out there to be had. They’re called books.

 

And with that, I’m off to make an FC-3 cutter chuck manually on my Myford for no other reason than that’s the way I’m currently obliged to do it and it doesn’t trouble me one jot.

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

Posted by blowlamp on 18/05/2011 09:22:08:

Posted by John Coates on 18/05/2011 06:43:31:

… My budget simply won’t stretch to CNC machines…

 

… I loathe Windows and have a Windows-less home for all our PCs and laptops so if CNC runs only on that pile of rubbish I can’t actually use it…

 

 

 

I see what you’re saying, John.

 

But if CNC only runs on Windows, then I conclude that the other Operating Systems either aren’t up to the task, or they don’t have a user-base that is large enough to warrant development of the technology.

 

My experience of using Windows is a positive one. Without it, I wouldn’t be able to do what I do with CAD, CAM and CNC, because there is no affordable equivalent at this time.

 

 

Martin.

 

Hi Martin

 

One of my points was that I cannot/will not add the cost of Windows to buying the CNC kit itself. I am glad that John S confirms that CNC/CAD/CAM programs can run on Linux as that is my chosen OS.

 

I work for a local council for my industrial/business experience of computing and their Windows based PCs don’t tend to have problems but the network suffers outages. At home its a different story. I got sick of SWMBO moaning that the Windows PC was slow or wouldn’t work because the teenager’s internet trawling had loaded the thing with viri and malware. We now have one Mac (using this now) and everything else is Linux as I can install it and maintain it and we have been problem free ever since (excusing the actual failure of hardware).

 

It’s personal choice and I prefer to be using the tool rather than constantly fixing it.

 

John

 

[Tony JeffreeParticipant @tonyjeffree56510]

Posted by John Coates on 18/05/2011 12:34:38:

Hi Martin

 

One of my points was that I cannot/will not add the cost of Windows to buying the CNC kit itself. I am glad that John S confirms that CNC/CAD/CAM programs can run on Linux as that is my chosen OS.

 

I work for a local council for my industrial/business experience of computing and their Windows based PCs don’t tend to have problems but the network suffers outages. At home its a different story. I got sick of SWMBO moaning that the Windows PC was slow or wouldn’t work because the teenager’s internet trawling had loaded the thing with viri and malware. We now have one Mac (using this now) and everything else is Linux as I can install it and maintain it and we have been problem free ever since (excusing the actual failure of hardware).

 

It’s personal choice and I prefer to be using the tool rather than constantly fixing it.

 

John

 

Hi John –

 

You can still get CNC software that runs under DOS too…

 

And just thought I’d mention that the latest MAC OS is actually a flavour of Linux; unfortunately, although the main target for virus attack is Windows, the MAC (and other flavours of Linux for that matter) isn’t immune.

 

Regards,

Tony

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

Posted by Tony Jeffree on 18/05/2011 12:57:55:

You can still get CNC software that runs under DOS too…

And just thought I’d mention that the latest MAC OS is actually a flavour of Linux; unfortunately, although the main target for virus attack is Windows, the MAC (and other flavours of Linux for that matter) isn’t immune.

 

I’ve been using Linux since 1998 and never had a problem that was not of my own making. I have lost count of the number of friend’s PCs I have been asked to fix because they suddently stop working or won’t connect to the internet.

 

The allegory I use is that I enjoy my motorcycle because I can fix it. It has carburettors I can strip down and tune and I can get at everything else. It is a labour of love which I enjoy. I appreciate my car which has computerised everything but even the garage mechanic has to plug a laptop in to understand whats going on. I don’t think he enjoys it but I clean it and enjoy its beauty once its clean.

 

Both do the functional job they were designed for, getting me around, but only one excites passion in me.

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Posted by John Coates on 18/05/2011 12:34:38:

 

Hi Martin

 

One of my points was that I cannot/will not add the cost of Windows to buying the CNC kit itself. I am glad that John S confirms that CNC/CAD/CAM programs can run on Linux as that is my chosen OS.

 

I work for a local council for my industrial/business experience of computing and their Windows based PCs don’t tend to have problems but the network suffers outages. At home its a different story. I got sick of SWMBO moaning that the Windows PC was slow or wouldn’t work because the teenager’s internet trawling had loaded the thing with viri and malware. We now have one Mac (using this now) and everything else is Linux as I can install it and maintain it and we have been problem free ever since (excusing the actual failure of hardware).

 

It’s personal choice and I prefer to be using the tool rather than constantly fixing it.

 

John

 

 

John.

 

Frankly, this says more about the mentality of some people rather than the reliability of Windows software. After all, if a stranger took a hammer to your Mac and destroyed it, then you’d surely agree that it wouldn’t be fair to blame Apple for that – I think the principle carries through in this context too.

 

When it comes to other O/S’s then apart from EMC2, there is very little choice of CAD/CAM/CNC software for the Linux platform.

 

As far as I am aware, there is some engineering CAD software available for the Mac, but offhand I can’t bring any CAM or CNC controller software to mind, as I haven’t needed to look.

 

Martin.

[pcb1962Participant @pcb1962]

Posted by Tony Jeffree on 17/05/2011 16:05:52:

 

C’mon Ian – give the lad a break – that was one of our esteemed Editor’s rare attempts at a tongue-in-cheek posting. Savour it while you can!

One man’s ‘tongue in cheek’ is another man’s ‘facetious and insolent’.

 

[Ian HewsonParticipant @ianhewson99641]

Gosh, why didn’t I think of that!

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

I never thought of it because I can’t spell it

 

John S.

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

Posted by blowlamp on 18/05/2011 14:04:39:

Frankly, this says more about the mentality of some people rather than the reliability of Windows software. After all, if a stranger took a hammer to your Mac and destroyed it, then you’d surely agree that it wouldn’t be fair to blame Apple for that – I think the principle carries through in this context too.

 

Martin.

Martin – my mentality is fine. I blame the openness of Windows for its vulnerability, not the attackers. If your car wasn’t easy to steal they would eventually give up and go away. Linux is more secure because it is a full implementation of the basic Unix dispersed model of access rather than the bodged affair that is Windows. Hence the ease with which it can be subverted. I can harden our Linux installations to stop all but a direct attack i.e. gaining control of the PC past the logon password. Linux doesn’t fall over after a simple system update which was the reason for my last visit to a friend to spend 2 hours fixing his Windows PC because the update had disabled its DHCP.

I know there are CAD programs for Linux (QCAD) so I’ll give them a look

[Tony JeffreeParticipant @tonyjeffree56510]

Posted by John Coates on 18/05/2011 21:54:10:

Linux doesn’t fall over after a simple system update

I have had exactly that happen to me after a Linux system update. I had to do a reinstall from the original distro to recover the situation.

 

Regards,

Tony

[Lawrie Alush-JaggsParticipant @lawriealush-jaggs50843]

Hallo Evrybardy (Hello Dr. Nick)

 

There are enough MAC/Windows/Linux discussions/flameouts/gorilla wars/tactical nuclear strikes on other sites. Can we please not have the same rubbish here?

 

Thanks

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Posted by John Coates on 18/05/2011 21:54:10:

Posted by blowlamp on 18/05/2011 14:04:39:

Frankly, this says more about the mentality of some people rather than the reliability of Windows software. After all, if a stranger took a hammer to your Mac and destroyed it, then you’d surely agree that it wouldn’t be fair to blame Apple for that – I think the principle carries through in this context too.

 

Martin.

Martin – my mentality is fine. I blame the openness of Windows for its vulnerability, not the attackers. If your car wasn’t easy to steal they would eventually give up and go away. Linux is more secure because it is a full implementation of the basic Unix dispersed model of access rather than the bodged affair that is Windows. Hence the ease with which it can be subverted. I can harden our Linux installations to stop all but a direct attack i.e. gaining control of the PC past the logon password. Linux doesn’t fall over after a simple system update which was the reason for my last visit to a friend to spend 2 hours fixing his Windows PC because the update had disabled its DHCP.

I know there are CAD programs for Linux (QCAD) so I’ll give them a look

 

John.

 

I was questioning the mentality of the virus writers and those that set out to cause trouble to others – not yours.

 

I can’t agree with your angle on which party is to blame in the event of a virus attack though.

 

Because of the huge amount of hardware and massive number of software applications, Windows has to try to be all things to all men. Reducing its openness would reduce choice for us all, as third parties would find it harder to develop applications. Because of this necessay versatility, my view leads me to believe it’s going to be more vulnerable to the hackers and virus writers. I can’t really see that Microsoft would actually want to keep writing patches and updates, but they have to for the sake of their business.

 

Good luck with the CAD.

 

Martin.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Draftsight, the 2D CAD offering from Solid Works which is free with no strings attached has versions for Linux and Mac.

 

Probably a £800 CAD program given away for free as a taster to buy their fully featured 3D program.

 

Draftsight download.

 

John S.

[Tony JeffreeParticipant @tonyjeffree56510]

Posted by Lawrie Alush-Jaggs on 18/05/2011 23:49:33:

Hallo Evrybardy (Hello Dr. Nick)

 

There are enough MAC/Windows/Linux discussions/flameouts/gorilla wars/tactical nuclear strikes on other sites. Can we please not have the same rubbish here?

 

Thanks

It’s official – Apple is a religion:

 

http://www.techradar.com/news/computing/apple/apple-evokes-religious-response-from-fans-957163

 

Regards,

Tony

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Bloody hell, and he’s little old me thinking it was a fruit…………………..

 

John S.

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

Posted by John Stevenson on 19/05/2011 00:17:43:

Draftsight, the 2D CAD offering from Solid Works which is free with no strings attached has versions for Linux and Mac.

 

Thanks John. Another one to add to the consideration pile. At some point I will definitely need to turn all my sketches from the whiteboard copied onto odd bits of paper into something more readable and durable !

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