Thinking of what to do with my fathers ME library (1898-2007)

[Andrew GParticipant @andrewg20654]

R.I.P. Peter Glanville 1937.06.12 – 2014.07.02 (South Africa)

[Andrew GParticipant @andrewg20654]

My father very recently passed away and he has been an avid model engineer almost his entire life. He had collected books, magazines, technical drawings/blueprints of steam locomotives (original and reproductions), written software relating to valve gears and has devoted an enormous amount of time and effort to his hobby.

With his passing, my mother and I are trying to work out what to do with his library and all of his other books, magazines, drawings and so forth. His Model Engineer library on its own is complete from the very first 1898/1899 edition all the way to approximately 2007 (I'm sure he had a few more issues after that but I must still go through all of them). The vast majority of them that were published as magazines are in the original ME binders (blue and maroon) and the others are in normal binders with custom made plastic holders to keep them in good condition.

I'm not sure if this is the right forum or place to post about this and if not I would appreciate it if I could be pointed in the right direction. I looked at the Classifieds section on the site but I want to get more information about his collection before I would list it.

I have considered starting a memorial library and donating it to the club he attended but I would also like to keep my options open. My main consideration is that I really want the library to go somewhere where it will be both appreciated and used.

In memoriam, Peter Glanville 1937.06.12 – 2014.07.02 (South Africa)

[MetalhackerParticipant @metalhacker]

My condolences on your loss.

a resource like this could be of immense-historical and possibly commercial value. If all those editions could be electronically reproduced, I am sure lots of us would want to consult them or even buy a set recorded on a DVD. Added to the archive on this ite we could all consult them in perpetuity. What do you think Diane or Neil?

Andries

[John ShepherdParticipant @johnshepherd38883]

Andrew

I applaud your desire to keep them in the engineering fraternity as a complete library. As a word of caution an acquaintance of mine had an extensive library on mainly historical and technical subjects. When he died it was transferred to the local town hall where it was run as a library by volunteers and was well used. That was until the town wanted the space and the collection was then sold from some ones garage (the proceeds did go to charity). If you do go down a similar line you might like to make sure that there is a chance of it remaining in existence in your fathers memory for some time to come.

No one will blame you for selling the collection but you will have no guarantee that it will not be split up.

I would hope that the club would be willing to look after them and come up with a suitable donation.

Regards

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Hello Andrew,

I'm sorry to hear of the loss of your father. Such a collection deserves to be kept together. Many individuals would enjoy it, but I would agree that the best way to ensure the collection is kept together and has a long and life is a club.

Andries,

The publishers have a full collection of the magazine and related titles. The problem with creating an electronic archive is just that – creating it. We don't have the automatic scanning machines that Google has. There is then the immense task of tidying up and checking all the scans. Think how long it would take you to scan in even a pre-war copy of ME and turn it into a good quality, indexed pdf. Now multiply that by over 2000.

It's very unlikely the publisher would be able to raise the funds from sales to cover the cost of making them. They could also be pirated and made available online quite quickly,which would undermine any real chance of covering the costs.

Neil

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

I would imagine, also, that the copyright issues would be insurmountable. I think I'm right in saying that copyright remains with the author's heirs until 70 years after death. I don't suppose LBSC's or ETW's contracts included digital rights!

Rod

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

hi andrew,

condolances and i am sure one of your local clubs will gladly provide a good home for your father's collection.

hi Rod,

i stand to be corrected on this, but generally (with a few notable exceptions) copyright of anything printed in ME including designs is owned by ME.

cheers,

julian

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Julian,

I know this is a controversial and even contentious issue but, in general I believe the copyright stays with the author – the magazine having first publication rights. My choice of ETW as an example may have been poor since I understand that he was an employee so his designs may have been produced as part of his job for the publisher but for freelancers I think the copyright remains with them. I know that when I published an article in a sister magazine, "The Woodworker", many years ago the publisher asked permission to include my article in an anthology.

Cheers,

Rod

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

I think you would have to check on copyright issues with each, individual publisher. Certainly the fairest deal for contributors is for the publisher to buy first reproduction rights, after which copyright reverts to the author. However, some publishers try to grab the complete world-wide copyright package, electronic publishing included, for one (often stingy) payment. I don't suggest publishers in the model-making business are like that, but it is a point to beware of.

Certainly it would be a pity if Andrew's father's collection was broken up, or locked away somewhere where it would never be used.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

This doesn't solve Andrew's conundrum., which i do think would best be served by donation to a club, as it's less likely to abandon the resource down the line by failing to appreciate it's significance. Alternatively, there must be a copyright library in South Africa, perhaps they will accept donations of foreign publications they do not hold?

…

The copyright issues are fiercely complex. As well as author's copyright in the text, the publisher has copyright in their edit and typesetting, not to mention any licensing or exclusivity arising from any formal agreement. These may be modified by different international copyright laws.

The main concerns for modern publishers are three-fold:

Seeing work they have published appear in a 'competitor' magazine (which is embarrassing to BOTH parties as much as anything else).

Needing world-wide publication rights to digital content (for obvious reasons – the web knows no boundaries)

Being able to republish material when the author may no longer be contactable (imagine the difficulties I would face producing a 25 years of MEW special next year, if I could only use material from my current set of contacts).

Whilst the publishers of ME and MEW are concerned not to see articles re-appear in other commercial magazines or websites, the abundance of books, blogs, club newsletter articles and plans out there based on ME or MEW articles surely proves that there is no draconian control being exerted on their reuse by the authors.

Republishing issues of ME wholesale by third parties is clearly a different issue, although no doubt the older issues are now out of publisher's copyright, if not the author's.

Neil

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Hi All

Pandora's box is a perfect metaphor for what is happening to all media publishing. In this case the Box (Actually it was a Jar), is the internet. It is already too late to put the lid on. A Google search on "Model engineers workshop" returned 399,000 hits. using the "quotes" to limit the result. 399k is a powerful number "Model Engineer" returned 334K. Pretty impressive results when you consider that model engineering is a fairly esoteric subject to many.

However I suspect that this is only the top of the iceberg (apologies for another metaphor), There must be many more that will be found with more general searches "Metal lathe" for instance over 3 million hits. "CNC machine" 1.9 million

Clearly the internet has provided a means of communication that was unheard of when Model engineer started publishing. However it has also changed the way information retention is done forever. Once a public disclosure is made; "Publishing" a work it is in the "Aether" in a classical sense the space between the earth and heaven. Coming back to reality the data is actually located on millions of commercial servers. A couple of links that give some idea of the size of the net hardware.

**LINK**

**LINK**

We are heading for 2 billion PC's on the planet!

No I am not advocating copying others works however I do not know how you can stop it. How many of us know of kids and adults that download movies and music? or EBooks? I suspect everyone in this room would answer yes. And the downloaders are spread across the entire globe. While it is feasible, in some jurisdictions, at least those that acknowledge western international law rights, to prosecute copyright infringers that reproduce and distribute copyright works. Going after individuals is problematic.

Having been involved in design most of my life I know the effort t that goes into any work that you create. I also know the feeling you get when a product you have designed has been "Knocked Off", anyone who has been involved in manufacturing for a while knows that feeling.

So what is the answer? If only there was a simple answer? In manufacturing making a newer hopefully better product was a good ploy. That puts you ahead of the game for a while. I think there is a partial solution there. keep making or publishing new and better works. Your customers or readers are always looking for the new and will pay to get it. Old stock be it products or publications have to be depreciated very quickly.

It is too late to go back to old ways of doing business, you have to stay ahead of the game, a very overused sentence but it says it all.

Regards
John

Edited By John McNamara on 08/07/2014 16:02:15

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

I didn't wish to hijack this thread and turn it into an argument about copyright, particularly considering the memories Andrew must have of his father, so I will be brief.

I am a professional writer and have been for more than 50 years, although admittedly not on model engineering subjects. I consider everything I write to be my intellectual property, and when I sell an article to a publisher I get extremely miffed when it turns up later somewhere else in the world, and even more miffed if I discover it had been sold on by the original publisher without do much as a by-your-leave. Perhaps I am old fashioned. but I still believe in ethics in business.

Perhaps now we should concentrate on helping Andrew find a suitable home for his late father's wonderful collection.

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Mike,

You' re right and I apologise for fuelling the fire.

Sadly, though, there is no answer to Andrew's conundrum. As an individual I have spent a couple of hundred pounds amassing a collection of MEs that now goes back to just before WWII. I cherish the magazines but there was no guarantee when I bought them that I wouldn't break up the collection. An ebay seller offers old single editions at over £8 each! Similarly, gifts to museums are usually only accepted on an unconditional basis, they may sell stuff to raise funds to buy something that is considered to be of greater value to the collection. The best bet is a gift to a model engineering society but I'm afraid it is a given that no one will cherish our efforts or collections as much as ourselves and (possibly) our loved ones.

Rod

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Hello Andrew,

Condolences to you and your Mom.

Your Dad no doubt was one of my customers when I had my shop in Northpark Plaza, but memory not as it was due to treatment.

You are certainly asking in the correct Forum.

Have you thought of also doing so on/in those across the Pond? Weight would not be a problem when sent via sea, but I now have no idea how efficient the post office is in SA.

I have a full set of ME, and enjoy a night reading, and about to start No. 783.

Being an ex-motorcyclist, I find the articles by Phoenix fascinating. How times have changed ,

Geoff – Finish the extra SkyHook today.

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