Things we should not do

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember43226]

[mgjParticipant @mgj]

Keep clear of rotating machinery springs to mind.

 

But what about filing in the lathe and the like.

 

Trouble is that there are a lot of things which are safe so long as you are careful – industry with a lot of its H&S no-nos is catering for the lowest insurance denominator, and for the lowest common denominator.

 

So one cannot always translate “What I was taught” directly, because the parameters are often different

 

 

Equally you get the loonies –

 

I remember. One correspondent who was doing a loco series was picked up for having rag near some machinery – there then followed a long diatribe about safety. Well it was a staged photo and the machine wasn’t running, so by definition there was no risk. (Had it been me I’d have just told our beloved Editor to shove the future articles and that would have been the end of it.)

 

Or the  wise one who as going on about someone holding a job down on a drilling table. You’d have thought the operator had just flashed Mother Superior.  Those who are perhaps wiser might have differentiated between a geared head drill and a small belt driven one, and the even wiser who slacken belts so that the job can be held quite easily because they can stall a small drill without trouble.

 

Perhaps the absolutes are fewer than we might think.

Edited By mgj on 26/03/2011 10:59:36

Edited By mgj on 26/03/2011 11:00:07

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

If one must file in the lathe, hold the fileunder the work, with the handle pointing away from you, then if things go wrong, the file will be forced away from you. Filing must be OK, I’v got two long angle lathe files that I have picked up over the last 40 yrs or so. Ian S C

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

I was taught, yes taught, to file in the lathe. Roll up sleeves, left elbow on headstock well behind chuck, right hand holding file, on top of job. Nice big handle on file of course.

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

The trouble with trying to distil this kind of knowledge into a usable format is that it tends to read as a set of rules which then become hard to interpret as experienced engineers rightly question them. What could be perfectly safe for Fred with 30 years experience of it may be quite unsafe for Bill who has none.

I (in common with many of you) often have to do things which I have never done before with machines which aren’t quite right for the job and tooling which is often made or adapted. I first start by trying to imagine all the things that could possibly go wrong. I have always done this and it wasn’t until recently that I realised I’d been subconsciously doing ‘risk assessments’ . Having thought things through this far I can then take steps to minimise any danger to me and am aware of how things could go wrong. The main problem here is one of experience. A man who has worked on a lathe for 30 years is going to have a much better grasp of using a milling machine for the first time than someone who has never been in a workshop.

I think that ‘things we shouldn’t do’ should be called ‘things I shouldn’t do’ and that rather than a set of rules, a guide to thinking things through, where generic things like loose clothing, safety equipment, guarding etc can be applied or disregarded as it is felt necessary.

One of the great things about a forum like this is that one can ask about even the most obscure things and find someone who has done it / knows about it. Therefore if your level of experience is low in a certain area you should ask about the subject in question.

Finally I should mention that I have a little voice in my head (I know what you are thinking) it is the voice of my subconscious or instinct, call it what you will. I have learnt that ignoring it has been a precursor to most of the really stupid things that I have done. I now treat it with a great deal of respect. Many times I have looked at something and thought it was wrong or unsafe without quite realising why only later to think yes that was it. So if you feel really uncomfortable about doing something then try and work out why.

Sorry for the ramblings

Dave

[Gone AwayParticipant @goneaway]

Ian, I’d agree with Gordon. I too was taught to use the file on top of the work on the principle that if you use it on the bottom and something goes wrong, you hand can be pulled into the machine.

 

I was also taught that, when using the file on a lathe (on top of the work), the body should be kept out of line with the file and that a left-handed stance was preferred with the right arm/elbow resting on the tailstock. (The point was made that even right handers with a modicum of mechanical ability should have basic use of their left hand).

Edited By Sid Herbage on 26/03/2011 16:34:29

[wheeltapperParticipant @wheeltapper]

Hi

can I just add a small one?

do NOT stand in line with the chuck when you first start the lathe.

anything likely to fly off has 360 degrees to go, guess which one it chooses.

 

Roy

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

This is quite relevant, tho’ you might not think so:- When I was young,, I did a bit of climbing, caving, M/C racing etc. All my mates at that time, and me, had the Golden Rule, if you don’t feel happy doing this,, Don’t do it.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Working for LEICA we were equipped with Shaublin Lathes and Milling machines, lovely machines and well made and can be used for every conceivable type of work.

They are of course very expensive.

I am very spoiled but have to do with a Myford now, sad!

The N102 Lathe has a pedal clutch which is a boon when doing repetitive work, slip the clutch undo the collet or chuck put in another item and off you go.

Comes the H & S man, watches me for a few seconds and starts on at me about doing dangerous acts on a moving machine, needless to say he knew nothing about Lathes , only seeing what to him was a dangerous act.

He was then taken to the Ultrasonic cleaning machines and again was up in arms about exposure to fumes and vapour until I pointed out we were using Aqueous liquid ( Micro) and it was harmless to the operators and the environment.

Safety in the workshop is part of the workers job to ensure that he harms no one nor himself.

I have seen some accidents, a crankshaft grinding wheel going up through the roof, we only ever found one half of it! A flashback on an Acetyline bottle, that was frightening with the screeching and panic.

I have seen three large gun barrels dropped from a travelling crane bouncing all over the place. Luckily no one was hurt.

But the most stupid was the man who found an un-exploded head off a 20mm shell and put in a vice and hit it with a hammer. It split the vice in two and took off two of his fingers and he had a lot of shrapnel on the side facing the vice.

So, there is safe working and stupidity.

Approaching a job one should assess the inherant dangers and work accordingly, talk to a Millwright who lost three fingers in the milling machine. That was through poking a twisted wire stem brush to clean off swarf while it was cuttiing.

You have an obligation to work safe and also to prevent any one else getting hurt.

 

Clive

 

[Steve GarnettParticipant @stevegarnett62550]

Whilst I agree in principle with what Gordon W is saying, I don’t think that it’s necessarily a good thing just to say that to the people whom my father would describe as ‘inconsequential’ – and I think that there are probably a good few of those about. It’s fine if you are generally aware of the sorts of things that could go wrong, but if you aren’t, then you could be, in ignorance, quite happy about doing something absolutely bloody lethal.

 

And on that basis, a set of specifics, whilst it might not be comprehensive, is certainly better than just relying on (rather rare) common sense, I’d say. And it’s good also not to just state them blindly, but also to explain why – which is why some of the comments above are potentially rather useful. I’d say that for the tyro model engineer, a wallchart with the important ones on might be a good idea?

 

Oh yeah – don’t ever leave the chuck key in the chuck… that is a good habit to get into.

Edited By Steve Garnett on 26/03/2011 19:41:58

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, one thing I’ll say about files, wether useing them in the lathe or in a normal manner, is that, if it is designed to have a handle fitted, then it should never be used without one, and a good quality undamaged one with a decent ferrule should be choosen. The injury that can be caused to your wrist and arm from the file tang, from any type of filing action, just dosen’t bear thinking about.

 

Regards Nick.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Some years ago I arrived at work to be told by the overnight security that they had knocked against a gas cylinder and they said the valve was leaking. The gas was inflamable so they had taken it outside and vented the lot. But it was Helium I protested, yes thats right he said, VERY inflamble. I then told him how much it cost and he went a sickly colour! That was before the H&S era I have to say.

[adyParticipant @ady]

I feel that this thread is pretty unbelievable.

 

If you’re a moron then machine tools will soon tell you this.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PDmZnG8KsM

 

Darwinism is a bit of a bugger.

Edited By ady on 27/03/2011 03:00:31

[Alex gibsonParticipant @alexgibson50133]

Hi Ady,

I’m guessing you are on the grog again. Good sounds!!

 

chin chin

alex

[adyParticipant @ady]

lol

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Graham,

 

Always wear eye protection when using rotating machinery.

 

Do not disconnect guard interlock switches.

 

Terry

[adyParticipant @ady]

Funny really.

I spent a lot of my early life with WW1 and WW2 folks and that’s what has given me this obsession with what my forefathers had. Lathes stuff.

 

Doesn’t stop us enjoying now though.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMPM1q_Uyxc&playnext=1&list=PLAEE9185D93BC89F5

 

Saw a short film clip once, WW1, where three guys set off across no-mans land and this HUGE explosion erupted behind them.

No-one ducked or turned to look back to see if anyone was hit, all three of them just plodded on through the slop.

A different world, a different people

Edited By ady on 27/03/2011 05:28:39

[adyParticipant @ady]

Had a radio operator great uncle who did bombers from 1939 to 1945.

 

If he did about 200 missions(conservatively) then he played russian roulette by pulling the trigger 40 times and not blowing his brains out.

 

Never said a bluddy word about it to anyone either.

[adyParticipant @ady]

Feel free to continue with your health and safety stuff chaps.

Sorry to ramble.

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Ady,

We have just had five pages elsewhere of nothing but vitriol created by a very inconsiderate and thoughtless person.

 

As I see it, Graham started this thread with the very best intentions to bring all matters machining – safety issues or not – to the eyes of the beginner. If it’s not for you then why not just look elsewhere or possibly, maybe, just add something positive.

 

On that note …

 

Never machine – mill or turn – anything that is held with just one clamp but always use a minimum of two with the packing only very slightly higher than the work or interpose a small pad between work and clamp to spead the pressure. A thin sheet of paper beneath the work will increase the grip considerably

 

 

There, easy isn’t it

 

Regards – Ramon

 

[Diane CarneyModerator @dianecarney30678]

Posted by Ramon Wilson on 27/03/2011 09:58:10:

Ady,

We have just had five pages elsewhere of nothing but vitriol created by a very inconsiderate and thoughtless person.

 

You’re safe enough. I suspect Ady might be having a lie in ….

[ZigFireParticipant @zigfire]

Okay, my two bobs worth.

 

Never leave the chuck key in your lathe chuck.

Very easy to do especially if you don’t have an interlocked cover over your chuck.

Did this once, started the lathe and the key flew out and hit me in the chest and it hurt!

Haven’t done it since I can tell you.

 

Cheers

Michael

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Came across an interesting one during my time as a nurse in a country hospital. A chap came in with the end of his finger off, it was reattached, and he recovered well. A few months later some one asked him how did he do it, oh I was mowing the lawn (he was again mowing the lawn), and I did this, he stuck his hand under the skirt of the rotary mower to lift the mower on its side without waiting for it to stop. This time he lost two fingers, and the were not reattached. The chap was not normally considered unintellegent! Ian S C ps H&S is getting up a few peoples noses here with regard to access to buildings and areas in Christchurch, although that is improving now. Ian S C

Edited By Ian S C on 27/03/2011 11:08:14

[Steve GarnettParticipant @stevegarnett62550]

Posted by ZigFire on 27/03/2011 10:37:14:

Okay, my two bobs worth.

 

Never leave the chuck key in your lathe chuck.

 

Did that on page one of this thread… only I said all chucks – I’ve seen a key fly out of a drill press with quite spectacular results.

 

If you use C spanners, make sure that they are fully engaged before giving them a good yank. (don’t ask)

 

Put up a small shelf just for your tea or coffee mug – neither liquid makes an adequate replacement for suds…

 

Don’t clutter up the floor around machinery – you tend not to concentrate on what your feet are doing when you are using it, after all.

 

And after reading the rest of the thread, I was tempted to say something about alcohol, but I’ll leave that to somebody else!

 

Edited By Steve Garnett on 27/03/2011 11:49:52

[GoCreateParticipant @gocreate]

Posted by Ramon Wilson on 27/03/2011 09:58:10:

 

Never machine – mill or turn – anything that is held with just one clamp but always use a minimum of two with the packing only very slightly higher than the work or interpose a small pad between work and clamp to spead the pressure. A thin sheet of paper beneath the work will increase the grip considerably

 

 

 

+ where possible keep the distance from the stud to the work shorter than the distance from the stud to the packing. This increases the leverage in favour of the work piece thus increasing the clamping load holding the work piece .

Nigel

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