Theft…

[ronan walshParticipant @ronanwalsh98054]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 06/11/2014 13:04:38:

> It is a very sad reflection of present day life in the UK when we have to go to all these measures to protect our properties.

Actually, total burglary has been in steady decline since 1996 and is now only 75% of what it was in 1981.

Over the same period population has grown by about 13%, so assuming the number of sheds has also increased… sheds have never been safer in the last 33 years.

Sorry to spoil a good story with facts (from the Crime Survey of England and Wales).

Neil

Neil, every hear the old line "lies, damned lies and statistics" ? If someone breaks into an outbuilding is it classed as a burglary or a trespass for instance ? You know when politicians want certain types of crime to go down , figures can be manipulated or massaged to suit.

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

When we first came to live here the local paper had the headline "garden shed broken into- nothing stolen " that was 25 years ago. Two advantages in living in the middle of nowhere – Very few people ever come here, nobody knows what force was used.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Hi Ronan,

Yes it is classed as a burglary.

Check the survey. it gives separate figures for dwellings and outbuildings, the outbuildings pretty much follow the figures for dwellings.

Note that this is the independent survey carried out each year to a consistent methodology, not the one based on reports to the police and it's generally accepted as being free from political influence.

It is the survey that collects data on all crime, not just that reported to the police, so it picks up 'minor' crimes that haven't been officially recorded.

**LINK**

Neil

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

Neil, not sure you have spoiled any good story with facts. Statistics can be made to prove anything it seems. My story is just that, my story. Whilst overall burglary may well have gone down as a percentage of the population who can say for sure, how many are not reported and how many does plod not bother with even noting down?

Round here (UK) theft of propane gas cylinders is more common than it was – at the time I was done so was another lady up the road – and so is oil from central heating oil tanks and not from isolated farms but any home by the roadside seems to be a target.

At one time, and within my lifetime, one could venture out and leave one's house unlocked, you can't now – a sad reflection of present day life! Even if I am home but in the back garden or in my shed my front door is always locked. In France, in the countryside, it is common for houses to be unlocked and unattended still, even overnight on more than one occasion by mistake with my daughters house! A couple of years back I spied a car parked near our village shop, drivers window down, radio on, keys in the ignition, owner was obviously in the shop/bar. An hour later it was still there. In the UK it would have been gone in under ten minutes I bet. A roofer was working round the back on our roof with a pickup parked outside with various expensive tools on show in the flat back bit, none went. He couldn't have done that in the UK. So I stand by my comment "It is a very sad reflection of present day life in the UK when we have to go to all these measures to protect our properties".

Chris

[Kevin BennettParticipant @kevinbennett25223]

when I had my workshop broken into the police was hear for 3 hours tanking all the info an serial numbers that I had for all my equipment that was stolen this was a good move take all ser No and file them I was also told that is probably in a shipping container on its way to Poland

so take all model Numbers and serial Number also photos this will help as it goes on the Police data base so when they do a raid on a property you may get it back

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

I've always believed the best way to prevent a burglary was to make your house less attractive than your neighbours. Good lighting at night because burglars hate being visible and hawthorne or rose bushes around the perimeter because they want an escape route. TV/laptop burglaries are generally druggies, key burglaries are after the car and gas bottle/caravan/metal thefts are generally travellers. The best deterrent to burglary without a doubt is a dog.

[frank brownParticipant @frankbrown22225]

Put your post code all all stealable tools – never know, if they are found on some likely lad, it will identify them. Round here (Wensleydale) its the chaps from M****"******* who take our oil and quad bikes (used for shepherding). Little s**s broke the filter of my empty fuel tank because they could not get any oil out of my empty tank.

We have had some very poor service from our local police. A local phoned them up and told them that he had followed a grossly overloaded Landrover down the dale (at 0400 hrs!!). They ignored the call. Turned out that the Landrover belonged to a neighbour and the 1/2 ton of lead from the local School roof.

Frank

[old AlParticipant @oldal]

The key to opportunist burglaries is not to advertise what you have to steal. Let next door have the fresh paint and clean net curtains. Thats the excuse I tell my wife for not doing all those jobs in the summer.

In the mean time, get a job delivering pizza leaflets and case every body elses homes. or am I just a cynic who doesn't know anybody who needs a pizza flyer every 2 weeks

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> Whilst overall burglary may well have gone down as a percentage of the population who can say for sure, how many are not reported and how many does plod not bother with even noting down?

Sorry to labour it, but that's the point of the British Crime Survey, it was very unpopular with the Politicians when it was showing crime rising. It is independent of police figures and includes unreported crimes. It has shown much more stable trends over time than the police figures which change as policies change etc.

It fascinates me that something deliberately set up to be independent of all the confounding factors and political interference is still not trusted – largely because it doesn't fit with the perception of increased crime caused by the media and, to be honest, new forums like this that let people share their stories more widely.

Neil

[SteveWParticipant @stevew54046]

Trouble is Neil that the politicians use these figures now after flirting with less reliable data sets. I think that just reflects on the politicians. Maybe its the 'fear of crime' figures we should look at?

When we were burgled the PC seemed disappointed that we had serial numbers and, though he did appear to write them down, nothing ever came of them.

Good locks and vigilance seem the best way forward.

SteveW

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

Don't knock perception. Perception is not just caused by media and forum chat but also by personal experience. If there are crimes more frequently being experienced in an area where previously they were not happening with such frequency, then in that area the perception is that crime is on the increase even if it is just local to that area.

For example, oil nicked from home oil storage tanks is not something that affects cities where vast amounts of people live, but in rural areas where mains gas is not on tap many people rely on oil for heating and for those people increasing reports, as there are, of oil being nicked increases the perception that crime is on the rise and is worrying for them. Overall crime may be falling as a percentage of population, but the population increases tend to affect cities more than rural areas, and in rural areas crime, affecting a much smaller amount of people, may be on the increase.

Plus. There is no comfort brought to the victim of a burglary by saying that such crime is going down because for him or her it has just gone up, even if there is a well respected independent report to say otherwise!

Chris

[Involute CurveParticipant @involutecurve]

Trick is to catch the little T**T at it, clamp his hand in a vice, then pick up a hacksaw, when he asked are you going to cut my hand off?, "No you are"!! I'm setting fire to this shed………

I have two dogs and a laser that's capable of engraving steel, and the dogs know how to use it…….

Shaun

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 06/11/2014 13:04:38:

Actually, total burglary has been in steady decline since 1996 and is now only 75% of what it was in 1981.

Over the same period population has grown by about 13%, so assuming the number of sheds has also increased… sheds have never been safer in the last 33 years.

Guy had a flea. Whenever he put it on his hand and said "jump" it would hop to the other hand. One day, as an experiment, he pulled the wings off the flea, put it on his hand and said "jump". Flea stayed where it was.

He concluded that pulling the wings off a flea makes it go deaf.

[ronan walshParticipant @ronanwalsh98054]

The problem is the judges only give slaps on the wrist to the idiots who appear in front of them for thieveing, i suppose they know they are wasting their time as jail doesn't appear to deter them. So why would they stop ?

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Just to cheer you all up for night, a true story- Many years ago when I lived in another very rural area there was a spate of diesel and heating oil theft, small quantities but often. Turned out to be the two coppers on night patrol, they were transfered to other forces.

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Shaun,

Oh how I like that.

!A man after my own heart!

I was burgled whilst upstairs sleeping, when renting in Bradford.

Not a pleasant feeling coming down in the morning and seeing a letter I needed to post lying on the floor, then noticing the stuff the effing counts had taken.

They must have had a child helping, as he/she used the narrow (horizontal) kitchen window to gain access, then open the door.

Geoff – Tom Senior mill 99.99*% done. Just need to replace oil in the power feed gearbox.

[old AlParticipant @oldal]

I thought that the police made people feel safe in there homes by giving a crime number. Is this not' job done' or do we expect them to do more. After all, they have to catch speeding motorists as a priority and if its raining, go indoors and fill in forms.

No stop it, you are being cynical again.(note to self)

seriously though, I would hate to be a policeman, you are always in the wrong however hard you work

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

You might find this interesting…..couple of years ago im sitting in the workshop at end of garden when I sees someone move. My garden is surrounded by a 6 foot fence so no one is supposed to be there! To cut a long story short I this nice chap was in the process of robbing my house via the unlocked (cos I was in the WS) patio doors. Im 21 stone and rather big! When the police arrived to relieve me of my recent catch they commented on what a shame it was that I hadn't kicked the living daylights out of him as I am apparently allowed to now! SOCO and burglary team both said exactly the same thing, backed up by my police neighbour! Just make sure they are on your land when you do it was the advice I was given. Theres some hope for us yet. Oh, and he was in court the next morning and sent down for 12 weeks!

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

Back in the 1980's a guy at work came out the supermarket one Saturday morning to find a scumbag trying to break into his Audi. Telling his wife and young son to stay by the shop he went over making for the car beside his, dropped his shopping when he got there and grabbed scumbag in a headlock and asked what he was doing. Each time scumbag answered he was trying to unlock his car our mate walloped him good and hard and asked again. Scumbag was too thick to change his story so got a good walloping. When plod arrived our mate said to plod he was sorry, he might have over-reacted a bit, but plod, bless him, said "oh no Sir, he was surely trying to resist arrest". Things were different back then!

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Thought it was about time to link to the last thread on this subject, or one of them

[WattoParticipant @watto]

Hi Guys

I though you might like to read this unusual article on the the theft of of locomotives in Australia

**LINK**

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

If they are sufficiently determined, they will take a lot of stopping.

A friend and I spent a lot of time putting in security at his son's business. HEAVY steel beam across door, can only be raised by electric hoist (disabled when Burglar alarm is enabled) brackets welded to beam to prevent doors being opened when beam is down, secure padlock under cover (to prevent tampering).

What did they do? Got in by wrenching d the back door and its frame OUT OF THE WALL, and then used the oxy acetylene to cut through the main door security, before stealling everything of value and a trailer in which to transport it.

My little workshop has no windows, and is double skinned and insulated, ( it would take a lot of time to find aw way through all the junk under and on the steel benches) and the door (a fire door) has a 6 lever lock supplemented by hinge bolts, although the hinge pins are pretty inaccessible.

Still, they could tunnel underneath and cut through the floor.

And this after climbing a 2 metre gate or a six foot high fence.

Maybe a few tame cobras would make a good defence? But then I'd be keeping a dangerous animal, and infringing the human rights of a criminal going about his work.

In my ideal world, a thief injured during a burglary would be told "You have only yourself to blame. If you had been acting legally, this would not have happened"

At least the chap who was permanently injured, whilst committing a burglary, had his claim for compensation dismissed.

As a pillar of the community, he had taken along a sixteen year old, "to keep him out of trouble". He is in no trouble now, having been shot dead!

For a little light relief:

An elderly widow neighbour left her house keys in the front door. They vanished before she could retrieve them. To the amusement of the local PC, as a temporary expedient I swopped her front door eurolock for my slightly shorter backdoor eurolock, until I could fit a new one for her.

The following night someone kicked her front door; presumably in frustration!

A former colleague fitted a trip wire connected to a 12 bore blank cartridge firer, across his garage doorway. Noisy, (a good alarm), and frightening for the crim, but basically fairly harmless.

Basically, as already said, don't advertise what is there, and just make entry very difficult. Hopefully, they will give up and head for somewhere less secure.

Howard

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

As you may gather, i live in NE Thailand. No neighbors, plantation farm house with perimeter wall. Crime rate is going through the roof here, it never used to be like this. Anyhow, i am legally entitled to SHOOT and KILL any intruder on any part of my property inc farm land. But as the police made clear it has to be a frontal shot, then no problems. You cannot shoot an intruder in the back. Sounds fair to me…

[mick70Participant @mick70]

they tried getting my place while back, my male lurcher heard them and shot out back.

had em pinned against wall just sat there not growling or anything.

absolutely chucking it down recognised them as from down rd so sent heldest boy down to get dad, he comes up and says shame its raining or else id leave them there all night, but dont want your dog catching cold.

pointed out his shelter for when we go out so he isnt cooped up in house.

he said fine ill see you in morning and went home dog went in shelter but wouldnt let kids move.

dad was back at 7 told em to go home get changed and straight back.

made em clean garden and allsorts of other bits.

also told them if they even sneeze out of line in future he will call police himself.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Got a news paper cutting from the mid 1950s (Otago Daily Times) A gentleman in Dunedin heard the sound of someone trying to break into his car, so while his wife rang the police, he went out with his shotgun, and held up the offender, In time the police arrived, and praised him for restraining the prisoner. Today the one with the gun would be marched off, the other bloke would probably be told to go home.

Ian S C

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