The departure of Arrival

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Snippet from today’s News:

MichaelG.

 

The British electric vehicle maker Arrival has collapsed into administration – putting 170 jobs at risk – just three years after it was valued at more than $15bn.

The company, which had two manufacturing sites in Oxfordshire, has appointed consultancy firm EY as administrator, after failing to launch its debut electric van.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Living in a village of 300 homes and NO 3 phase power where a short journey to the shops is 40 miles and I may have to do a round trip of 400 miles in the next week, The attraction of an EV has yet to be proved and many are thinking twice about buying one !

That this has happened is no surprise ! Noel.

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

Personally, I never thought twice about buying an EV, I wouldn’t have one given to me. Thanks, but no thanks!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Strange that no-one picked-up on the astonishing numbers.

I’m not bothered … just surprised.

MichaelG.

 

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Yes quite amazing that a company can spring up overnight be valued at $13billion and then disappear overnight owing lots and have produced absolutely nothing.

John

[RobinParticipant @robin]

Range anxiety, bursting into flames, massive depreciation, expensive insurance, not repairable, hardly goes at all winter and liable to lock you inside without warning…

What’s not to like? 😀

best

Robin

[peak4Participant @peak4]

It’s not quite as simple a story as some may think, involving a Russian billionaire and Hyundai amongst others.
Here’s an FT link which should bypass the paywall
The links contained within the article should also be viewable, such as This One.

Bill

[ChrisLHParticipant @chrislh]

I’ve just picked up on the erstwhile value – an apparent investment of £88 million per employee head. Makes my previous employer’s investment on my behalf of a table and a chair look a bit thin.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks to Bill’s second link … This makes a good ‘Executive Summary’

“They saw lots of shiny things and tried to pursue all of them,”

MichaelG.

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

I love physics and chemistry; however, in discussion with a similarly aged “green” promoter, who knew all the latest buzz-words from YouTube, etc, I figured it out that I’m wrong, because:

1) Said green supporter last did any science in school in about “grade 7 or 8” (North America grading; likely pre-teen in age) and that was about 50 years ago. That’s all you need to change the world.

2) Any study older than 2 years is “outdated”; need more lithium, well, the scientists will figure out how to make more on a world-wide scale.

3) And, of course, the “Elixir Sellers” are out in droves as the money is flowing fast and free.

FYI, this fellow Canadian writes well, and has the background to support it. Spread amongst the listing of publications are some downloadable PDF files of articles:

https://vaclavsmil.com/publications/

JohnS.

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Another nail in the EV coffin.

Robin has hit that nail right on the head.  Why on earth would you want one?

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

<<Living in a village of 300 homes and NO 3 phase power where a short journey to the shops is 40 miles and I may have to do a round trip of 400 miles in the next week, The attraction of an EV has yet to be proved and many are thinking twice about buying one !>>

Wow. That big? My village isn’t more than 20 homes spewed across the fields. There is 3 phase but getting that run from the 11K lines at the bottom of my nearest field would still be £k’s.

The nearest shop is only 3-4 miles away but rationally the nearest supermarket is 13 miles. None of that is an issue.

I can fully recharge my EV in 14hrs from a 240v supply and have a nominal 300 mile range summer and 250 miles winter.

Fire risk is no different to fossil cars but granted dealing with them has some novel issues.

I had a 430 mile round trip last week. Modern traffic is such that it was over 4 hrs each way driving. I made my first toilet break after a couple of hours and plugged in to a charger, strolled to the loo and back, had a cup of coffee (thermos ‘cos I ain’t paying motorway prices) and during that time it’d added 80-odd miles to my range. I chose to make another stop around 30 miles from my destination because old gentlemen have needs despite prostate surgery and made sure I topped up enough range to safely return past at least three charging opportunities just in case they might be crowded. On the return trip my first charging option was indeed busy, second was fine and I filled up enough to get home if I’d wanted to but chose to stop at Telford services because I just happen to have a free charging deal and why pay at home when I can get some freebies and finish my thermos. Total cost to me was 50Kwh home electricity plus tyre wear and a thermos of coffee and packet of supermarket crisps.

pgk

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Boy, what a faff compared to an ICE.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

My 200+ mile each way journey has come to pass ! I will leave in a 25 year old peugeot, a tank full, will collect the goods, use the loo and drive back covering some 400+ miles. I will then drive the car all next week before I need to re fuel ! Due to the secret mix of hydrocarbon liquids it will cost me about £7  to cover some 500 miles! This fuel is 90% renewable so I feel I’m doing my bit to save us all !

That the EV is attractive to some is fine, but it does not suit my needs – yet ! Noel.

 

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

I congratulate you on a 4hr bladder. My days of such are sadly gone along with the bulk of my prostate gland and half of my right kidney. However, I would like your fuel recipe since I do have a diesel second car. Does it leave a trail of free chip smell in it’s exhaust along with the other toxic combustion products?

pgk

[Bo’sun]

On Bo’sun Said:

Another nail in the EV coffin.

Robin has hit that nail right on the head.  Why on earth would you want one?

Because we can’t afford the alternative!

Assuming that we can carry on as we are is mistaken.   I hope it’s understood that the cost of gas, diesel and petrol is going to rocket with my children’s lifetime.   IC cars are only viable at the moment because fossil oil is still cheap.  Hurrah, except resources are depleting and permanent shortages are on the horizon.

Only in la-la-land is there an inexhaustible supply of gas and oil.  In the real world, cheap oil isn’t sustainable, for which reason affordable fossil-fuel motoring is doomed. If we get on with it, EVs running on cheap renewable energy will be affordable long after petrol becomes too rare and expensive for ordinary motoring.

Chief danger now is that those who can’t accept what’s happening have successfully delayed tackling the problem for 40 years, and their dithering has left the next generation between a rock and a hard place.  In consequence a lot of people who rely on IC vehicles are going to get hurt because – for a period of time – they won’t be able to afford fuel for their IC or to buy a new EV.

A sense of entitlement does not guarantee motoring as we know it must last.  Awful truth is that time is nearly up.  God isn’t making any more fossil fuels.   Humanity has to do something else, it’s the way of the world.  Denial never helped anybody…

Dave

 

 

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

It will all be O.K. … the House of Lords is seeking-out the naysayers !

Rowan Atkinson has been blamed for “damaging” the reputation of electric vehicles (EVs) and contributing to slow sales.

The Mr Bean actor was name-checked in the House of Lords on Tuesday during its environment and climate change committee meeting.

MichaelG.

[Bo’sun]

On Bo’sun Said:

Another nail in the EV coffin.

Robin has hit that nail right on the head.  Why on earth would you want one?

Range anxiety and diminished cold weather performance are the only complaints specific to EVs. The others are just as applicable to ICE vehicles. The only reason we think the multiple disadvantages of fossil fuel powered vehicles are acceptable is because we’ve not known anything different.

Why would you want one? Simple, they drive better than a ‘normal’ car. Once all the ‘look at the shiny, fancy new high-tech smugness’ wears off and we just look at them as cars, this argument will mostly go away. That will be when you won’t be able to distinguish an electric I10 or Sandero from a petrol one whether that’s from the driver’s seat, purchase price or it driving past you. This has already happened with hybrids; the original Prius stood out, but a Corolla hybrid doesn’t.

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Nick;

Well said. My “complaint” with them is that they still kill people, they still take up finite resources, and it’s better health-wise to get out and walk or cycle or…

I’m saying this from overseas; maybe UK is different. The latest stats from TomTom puts Toronto at city#3 in the world for congestion, and it’s growing at 6%/year (if you believe their stats; at least they have data). I know that there are issues in the UK with pushing increased charges for cars in cities, but my personal opinion is that cars have taken over, and it’s either cars or people for an increasingly densified city. (over here, it’s knock down houses and cram 16 x the number of people in the same square feet, but keep expanding the roads as “car-space” is more important than “people-space”)

Our car often sits for days without moving; my kids are worried about COVID getting me, but, honestly, in our “shared use” road (everyone on the same bit of asphalt) it’s getting hit by an aggressive driver in a car when I’m out walking our little Spaniel that I’m worried about getting me, not COVID!

Off my soapbox now, apologies!  JohnS.

 

[Chris MateParticipant @chrismate31303]

Rant=Resources and the link to money(The unspoken)
Over the last 30 years since 1992+ companies go bust and there it ends for the taxpayer or ordinary person. However today one should start asking questions about the flow of money(Profit=Ok, the devil in the room is the channelling of money over and above profit, admin fees, willy nilly fees etc, and the waste of resources.
You cannot waste money in a monetary system, it just flow from accounts to other accounts. You surely will waste resources through the endeavor. Think about it, every time you spend a cent, money has flow to account(s) and resources wasted in many ways, meetings, travel, planning, construction, sales, faults unreliabilities etc……..How successful was the product…..Is the product/service reliable over time, easy to maintain etc etc, or does it cost a fortune, difficult to maintain(Overengineered), and consumes the customers money as its used-??

Every time money flow, resources are wasted, no choice, thats how it works, we just never think about it like this. Money(or anything, Crypto surprise coming representing money) is naturally link, whether you like it or not, respect it or not, to natural resources of nature(I am not talking about climat change here at all)  in a closed system like Earth. WE are all born in the success of the past, and very few still alive know how things come about from “nothing”, today people think you can print or digilitise, mine crypto and your weath will keep on falling from heaven, trees, clouds, internet etc……Thats a huge misconception at 8 Billion souls on the planet.

You have to live once born, you have to waste some resources, no escape, but when resources are wasted exponentially at scale, manufacturing crap at huge scales, theres going to be a price to pay for humanity. One could argue the last 30 years the next 500 years of resources had been wasted already willy nilly on very large scales….

No resources=No money, no crypto, no digital, no electricity, no water, no steel, etc, you on your feet and may die of starvation. Now most of the 8-Billion cannot imagine this actually happenning. Going forward we need some very special leaders over the Globe, or go down in numbers to my guess 2 Billion, like before 1940-ties.

Whats next:2025+
Nobody want that….So my question is=Whats next. Nothing works over time if the basics are disrespected in a closed system at every level…..

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

British company? Located in Britain?

Yet valued in Dollars?

I wonder who really owned it – or was it one bought by so-called “investors” in the USA to take the IP and close it down?

 

[Clive SteerParticipant @clivesteer55943]

I think that the energy usage for personal motoring, which EVs are mainly used for, is only a small percentage of the total energy our modern life styles consume. I also think we might find that there isn’t enough “renewable” energy being received from the sun on a daily basis that we can use to support it either. In reality the world has used up, in 100 years, energy that has been accumulated over millions of years. Even the best engineers “canna change the laws of physics” even though they may persuade us they can.

Interesting points made by Chris. Money is only a number and costs little to change but the damage those numbers can induce us to cause is disturbing. Maybe numbers are the root of all evil?

CS

[RobinParticipant @robin]

We started using fossil fuels when Dud Dudley perfected the smelting of iron with sea cole. Have you read his book?

We have a lot of fossil fuel left, particularly coal. Seems a shame to leave it in the ground when we could be enjoying a golden age and improving lives all over the planet.

Most atmospheric CO2 comes from the tectonic subduction of limestone, so there must be some natural process converting CO2 back into limestone ready for its’ next time around. That would seem to be important.

CO2 levels are unusually low, a bit like you get towards the end of a glaciation. I think we need to know why. Best to understand the problem, if there is a problem, before trying to fix it 😀

best

Robin

 

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

I get the impression that EVs and ‘renewables’ may be the new ‘dot.com’. When greedy but ignorant investors throw development money around, you can be sure that some folk will get rich, even if there’s no product.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

PGK hi, First you need an old diesel hence my 25 year old peugeot MOST engines with any form of electronics won’t work and common rail REALLY don’t like it ! Newer than 2000 – NO ! In an ideal world a Bosch injection pump is to be prefered, Lucas/CAV have a nasty habit of snapping the pump shaft due I believe to lube starvation ! Always carry a small bottle of vinegar and a tub of salt – this quickly shuts up the smart arse comments real quick when they smell the delightful scent of barbecue or fish and chips ! Recipe – 90% clear rape oil, this can be waste and a slight cloudyness is permissable. 10% cheap petrol. Method – A berco boiler is the best vessel, place the petrol and rape oil in that order in the pot, heat to about 50*c then strain through 1 or2 nylon coffee strainers, it is now ready for use ! This experiment was started about 20 years ago,and I have had NO trouble starting in the UK even on frosty mornings, though IF I feel the need I have sometimes used 3L in 25l. This mixture has been used in 2 Ford vans and 5 Peugeot 1905 cc diesels. Though you can retain the standard fuel filter, they may fail after a few k miles ! The way round this is to use the CAV filter head and Crossland 522 filter or even better make the longer through bolt and Crossland 620 filter, I have known them to do 15K miles. The 2 filters are readily available almost anywhere and CHEAP ! Hope this helps, though it has nothing to do with the title thread . Noel.

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