The Day Coal Dies

[Nealeb]

On Nealeb Said:

The pop-up I see on both Android tablet and PC comes from the Times/Sunday Times web site, and is when it hits the paywall. If you have already said yes to cookies from this site (or actually have a subscription) then you will not see it. I would guess that if you have accepted the advertising cookies from that site via any other route and you are trying to reach the site from the same browser, then that would get through the barrier as well.

Never like this when web sites were coal-fired…

It’s strange but I haven’t subscribed or accepted any cookies but it’s still visible on my iPad.

[Vic]

On Vic Said:

On Nealeb Said:

The pop-up I see on both Android tablet and PC comes from the Times/Sunday Times web site, and is when it hits the paywall. If you have already said yes to cookies from this site (or actually have a subscription) then you will not see it. I would guess that if you have accepted the advertising cookies from that site via any other route and you are trying to reach the site from the same browser, then that would get through the barrier as well.

Never like this when web sites were coal-fired…

It’s strange but I haven’t subscribed or accepted any cookies but it’s still visible on my iPad.

Perhaps (like me) you have news+ on your iPad?

Not sure but I think the Times may be part of that.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I wonder if it is cached on your Pad, Vic ?

I now get the pop-up … but I’ve cleared the News ‘History’ since I first posted the link.

MichaelG.

.

Post crossed with V8’s

[Vic]

On Vic Said:

On Nealeb Said:

The pop-up I see on both Android tablet and PC comes from the Times/Sunday Times web site, and is when it hits the paywall. If you have already said yes to cookies from this site (or actually have a subscription) then you will not see it. I would guess that if you have accepted the advertising cookies from that site via any other route and you are trying to reach the site from the same browser, then that would get through the barrier as well.

Never like this when web sites were coal-fired…

It’s strange but I haven’t subscribed or accepted any cookies but it’s still visible on my iPad.

Gotta love how they always show the condenser water cooling towers “spewing [WATER] vapour” into the atmosphere but forget to mention the water part. Nothing to do with CO2 emissions or combustion particulates or anything else. But it makes a good picture…

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

The sky might look a little different without that “fluffy white cloud generator“ running.

🙂

MichaelG.

.

Edit: __ let’s forgive any abuse of the word Steam, and enjoy this image, which is very much how I remember the view:

https://www.alamy.com/winding-road-by-ratcliffe-on-soar-coal-power-station-with-steam-from-the-cooling-towers-ratcliffe-on-soar-nottinghamshire-england-uk-gb-europe-image425770662.html

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Or there might be a drought without all that water vapour going into the atmosphere? 🙂

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

In a stroke of supreme irony, it turns out that natural gas is more damaging to the environment than coal, according to the latest study HERE

In a nutshell:

“Even though carbon dioxide emissions are greater from burning coal than from burning natural gas, methane emissions can more than offset this difference,” Professor Howarth wrote in the paper.

“As a greenhouse gas, methane is more than 80 times more powerful than carbon dioxide when considered over a 20‐year period and so even small methane emissions can have a large climate impact.”

According to Professor Howarth, at every point along the chain of gas production methane was found to be leaking.

So really, they should be closing down the gas-fired power stations producing 30 percent of Britain’s power and going back to burning coal.

A masterly con job by the oil and gas industry,which of course is disputing the good professor’s research, while the environmentalists are disputing the industry’s disputation. And so it goes on…

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

That logic works if we were replacing coal with gas but we are not. Next job fix the leaks and phase out gas. ( and cows).

regards Martin

[Hopper]

On Hopper Said:

In a stroke of supreme irony, it turns out that natural gas is more damaging to the environment than coal, according to the latest study HERE

In a nutshell:

“Even though carbon dioxide emissions are greater from burning coal than from burning natural gas, methane emissions can more than offset this difference,” Professor Howarth wrote in the paper.

“As a greenhouse gas, methane is more than 80 times more powerful than carbon dioxide when considered over a 20‐year period and so even small methane emissions can have a large climate impact.”

According to Professor Howarth, at every point along the chain of gas production methane was found to be leaking.

So really, they should be closing down the gas-fired power stations producing 30 percent of Britain’s power and going back to burning coal.

A masterly con job by the oil and gas industry,which of course is disputing the good professor’s research, while the environmentalists are disputing the industry’s disputation. And so it goes on…

I recommend everyone read the article and make their own mind up.   Hopper’s conclusions are flawed! Give ’em the third degree.

Of course leaking Methane is bad, but the report specifically addresses the rapidly growing US Liquid Natural Gas industry.   That US industry has been slapdash does not mean the rest of the world is too!   Nor do US gas leaks mean the UK would benefit in any way by reintroducing coal burning power stations!

That methane is a bad greenhouse gas isn’t news.   What’s more interesting is the subject being raised in connection with President Biden’s decision to ban the export of US natural gas.  He’s chosen to retain this particular fossil fuel for use within the US, which is bad news for countries who need to import it.

Whether or not the US clamps down on other fossil fuel exports as well remains to be seen.   It’s complicated.  At the moment, the US imports about 8 million barrels of crude oil per day whilst also exporting a different 10 million barrels of crude.   Yer wot?   The reason is a mixture of history and chemistry.   For a good few decades it’s been cheaper to import crude oil into the US than to extract it locally : no more easy gushers.   So for a long time most US crude has come from Canada, Mexico and Venezuela.

As these countries all produce ‘Heavy Sour’ crude – a thick goo with lots of Sulphur in it.  Consequently US refineries are almost all engineered to process Heavy Sour.

All change!  Today the US produces a lot of ‘Light Sweet’ crude by fracking. ‘Light Sweet’ is refined with a different chemical process than that used on Heavy Sour because it’s thinner with much less Sulphur.  Bottom line, to make use of their own fracked oil the US will have to replace almost all their existing refineries.     No one rushing to do that because it’s seriously big money, but the balance will shift as soon as importing Heavy Sour becomes more expensive than fracking Light Sweet.

The strategic importance of energy supply is not lost on the US government.  Nor are they alone.   A likely reaction when resources become short is to restrict exports.   Over the next 30 years any industrial oil producing country will be much more reluctant to export oil.   What’s happening may not be obvious to consumers yet, but Governments around the world have taken note.  How should their country prepare for a world in which oil and gas are not cheap and abundant?

Dave

 

[SillyOldDuffer]

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

How should their country prepare for a world in which oil and gas are not cheap and abundant?

 

As a wake-up call … I suggest looking at yesterday’s Reuters piece, about Cuba

MichaelG.

[Ches Green UKParticipant @chesgreenuk]

Dave,

Thank you for that piece of journalism on the energy business.

Understanding the actual truth behind what the mass media is feeding us is a full-time job these days.

As always do one’s own due diligence and keep an open mind.

Ches

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

For convenient access to Prof. Howarth’s publications:

https://www.research.howarthlab.org/publications/

MichaelG.

.

Ref. https://www.research.howarthlab.org/publications/Howarth_LNG_assessment_preprint_archived_2023-1103.pdf

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

When I’m out walking the dog on a still night I often smell gas. Pipes around here are getting on for 100 years old. It’s probably cheaper for the distribution company to lose a bit of gas then to fix the leaks

[Ches Green UK]

On Ches Green UK Said:

Dave,

Thank you for that piece of journalism on the energy business.

Understanding the actual truth behind what the mass media is feeding us is a full-time job these days.

As always do one’s own due diligence and keep an open mind.

Ches

It’s getting difficult. I read a while back that China built 47 new coal power stations. I later read it was actually 47 Gw of capacity? Slightly different. I then saw a video suggesting that coal consumption in power stations is going down in China due to the cost of coal.
The Daily Mail admitted making up a story a while back. And as for the BBC, well what can I say. Their reporter Jeremy Bowen some months back said an Israeli Missile destroyed a Hospital killing over 300 people. The truth came out a few days later. A Hamas Rocket aimed at Israel fell short hitting a Hospital Car Park. Jeremy Bowen was completely unrepentant about his false report. I wouldn’t believe a word the man says.

I saw this posted yesterday! 🤣

 

[VicParticipant @vic]

One I downloaded a few years ago that I’ve just found. 🤣

[Ches Green UKParticipant @chesgreenuk]

Just for interest.

Prof Howarth works out of Cornell University. Here is a list of donors (1970 – 2023) to that university … https://donations.vipulnaik.com/donee.php?donee=Cornell+University

The top 3 donors are …

Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation $222M

Andrew W. Mellon Foundation $ $80M

W. K. Kellogg Foundation $3M

For some reason the phrase ‘he who pays the piper calls the tune‘ springs to mind.

Ches

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