The Ageing Engine

[Trevor Crossman 1Participant @trevorcrossman1]

When I joined this illustrious Forum, I mentioned that eventually I would be dusting off one or two of those projects that, err, aren't quite done yet, most of us have one or two or more. One such is a 9 cylinder spark ignition radial drawn up by Lee Hodgson of Ageless Engines, but ever since I bought the drawings in the last years of the last century, and every time that I rediscover the collection of pieces, materials and tooling, I have become somewhat older, the Management indoors refers to it as the Ageing Engine and suggests that by taking a 'selfie' alongside each picture, progress might have been quicker!!

This was the state of play some when in 2004

I had made the cylinders,pistons and rings; front cover, crank, most of the gears, a functioning oil pump, front and rear bearings, a 'practice set-up ' master rod and had done most of the work on the crankcase and made the fixture to machine the heads.

The years up to 2010 saw little done and apart from the basic shaping, threading and finning of the cylinder heads on the fixture that I had made in 2004, not much progress had been made. The only other advance was the hot caustic blacking of the cylinders, which was quite successful, though I think that the kit which I used is not available now. The holes for the cylinder studs had been drilled but still needed tapping along with most of the others in the crankcase.

And then life, and all that goes with it got in the way, as it does with most of us, suffice to say that not a lot happened in 8 years ………..until this week, when after making a couple of tapping jigs, buckets of cutting fluid and several fresh 4-40 UNC taps, I spent more than a couple of hours threading the front and rear bearing shoulders and the cylinder stud holes,all 72 of them. And so the crankcase, after about 15 years since first bolting a slab onto the faceplate, is finally finished!

Now that the ball is rolling, and the clock is definitely ticking, I'd better do something about the cylinder heads!

Trevor

[Trevor Crossman 1Participant @trevorcrossman1]

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

That looks lovely, Trevor

… Don't start rushing things now.

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 26/03/2018 21:21:46:

That looks lovely, Trevor

… Don't start rushing things now.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Seriously, that is enviably good work.

Neil

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Looks like the usual problem of getting all the big exciting bits out of the way first and then you are left with all the nasty fiddly bits at the end. I have a couple like that too Now I try to do both types as I go along.

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

Very, very nice. Love my radials. Impressive work.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Seriously, that is enviably good work.

Neil

[Trevor Crossman 1Participant @trevorcrossman1]

Please Neil praise once is quite sufficient, your duplicate post key is stuck….and I can find the imperfections in my work !. And that practice Master rod is most definitely only a practice item.

I don't think that there'll be much rushing Michael, it took me about 16 years to drill/bore/mill the 176 holes in that block alloy and then get 131 of them threaded. I am a bit extreme will my projects though,,,,,,,,,,100% attention or zero.

I think that you are dead right there Jason, because I certainly was not tempted to make the gudgeon pins or valve rockers first, I did however let some logic over-rule emotion and make most of the machining fixtures first so that I could perhaps start components as and when inclination, time, material and tooling became available. Much more satisfying to make huge piles of swarf from big lumps of metal !!

So you love radials thaiguzzi, have you built one of these, or perhaps the 18 cylinder model or do you refer to full size engines? I hope that my model is not as leaky as the old Beverley engines seemed to be, I was once laughingly told that they only needed a navigator on the outbound leg and just followed the oil slick back home.

Anyway, probably no progress today as The Manager and I are to go to a lunch party for one of her buddy's Birthday celebrations, don't know how many years, they don't seem to mention numbers

Trevor

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

Oi Trevor – a bit less of the Bev 'slagging-off,' if you please!! We ex-Quad Centaurus 'survivors' had a great affection for Blackburn's finest!! Yes, it was a bit profligate with lube but that was probably the magic of sleeve valves. Spent many hours in the 'Dog Kennel' pumping overload oil which, at 8000' after a few hours cold soak, tested the wisdom of smoking!!

If I sound a bit grumpy it's 'cos seeing your handiwork makes me realise that there are areas of endeavour that are TOTALLY beyond me!! That is a magnificent bit of machining

rgds

Bill

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Bill, I worked on Bevs at Sharjah and it was no joke being in the dog kennel and pumping out for the four engines when the outside temperature was 120 degrees F plus. I also remember the flight engineers always put an entry in the 700 that read “ clean freight bay windows opposite no’s 2 and 3 engines”, a pointless task because as soon as they were airborne they were covered again in oil shed from the engines. The Bev was a real airplane and with 4 Centaurus engines sounded the part. Sorry for sidetracking the thread.

Dave W

[Trevor Crossman 1Participant @trevorcrossman1]

Thanks for the compliments Bill . I too remember the dog kennel for having to drill and rivet up metal repairs in what must have been the stickiest, smelliest, oiliest compartment of any aeroplane, which as Dave W says sounded like a proper aeroplane. I'm not sure that I'd want to build 4 of these miniatures though, certainly not without a full CNC machining centre and the knowledge to use it correctly, and that just isn't going to happen!

I have been reading the build manual over and over to get my head around the process sheets for the cylinder heads, just about understand it all now and will start setting up for the next stage tomorrow. Should have got them finished when I learnt it all first time a few years ago when the brain cells as well as the fingers were a bit more nimble

While I'm here, I'm planning ahead now, has anyone got a spare lump of 2024 T4 Flat about 2" x !" x 6" for the master rod that they're willing to part with ( for cash of course). 7075 would perhaps be better. I don't really want to buy a whole length though one of the stockholders and none of the jobbing shops that I know have any. Anyone know of a retailer of small pieces of these grades?

Trevor.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by Trevor Crossman 1 on 27/03/2018 10:35:33:

So you love radials thaiguzzi, have you built one of these, or perhaps the 18 cylinder model or do you refer to full size engines? I hope that my model is not as leaky as the old Beverley engines seemed to be, I was once laughingly told that they only needed a navigator on the outbound leg and just followed the oil slick back home.

Trevor

I once worked with a draughtsman who had previously worked on the development of rotary valve 4 stroke engines. He reckoned that they thought they were doing well if the oil consumption was less than the petrol consumption. Wonder why they never caught on? Even my Bantam managed on 25:1 petroil

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

No, not really into model engineering, it's all just too small for me and my podgy fingers.

4BA is about the smallest i work with, preferably 2BA, anything smaller annoys me.

I admire the work and skill involved however, and it's nice to see the "open" engines like the Stuart models et al.

Re, radials yeah full size – if i still had my UK workshop, i would already have a non running full size one on display by now in the showroom. Also like any of that pre war period air cooled engine scene – big JAP, external pushrod tubes etc etc.

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

Howzabout this?

[mickParticipant @mick65121]

Hi. Trevor. Stick at it, its worth it. I've finally replied to your PM and I can suggest a less complicated method of machining the heads!!

[Trevor Crossman 1Participant @trevorcrossman1]

Nice piece of work mick ! Is it easy to start and run well ? Good to see a finished example to help keep the show on the road. I'd be interested in your method, bearing in mind that my heads are part machined up to page 126 operation #3 / 19 . So that means that I've cut and threaded the combustion chamber, finned the outer diameter and milled off the intake/exhaust manifold face on all 9 blanks…….did have 10 once! Looking at your picture, perhaps you have used 10mm plugs? They look bigger than my tiddly 1/4 unf ones. Pm me your suggestion, I like easy……too little time for aggravation and frustration.

Trevor

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Posted by thaiguzzi on 28/03/2018 04:52:37:

Howzabout this?

Nice T28, shame about the bike.

Martin P

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

Ah! T28!

Common fare in Thailand in the 60s. En route Vientiane to Saigon in the Devon and had a feeling something had changed. Looked over my shoulder to see one of those in CLOSE attendance! Presumably checking in case we were one of the many drug runners in the area. Looked to be a useful workhorse for close support.

Like the bike but it'll never fly!!

rgds

Bill

[Matt HarringtonParticipant @mattharrington87221]

Trevor, that is indeed, a labour of love – and I love it…..

Now the bit is between your teeth, when do you hope to finish it?

Matt

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

There will be quite a few big round motors at Wanaka this weekend, 13 Harvards in formation for a start, and quite a few others as well. This year is the 30th of Wings Over Wanaka. A T-28 will be there too. Love the smell of av gas.

Ian S C

[Trevor Crossman 1Participant @trevorcrossman1]

Well April has come and gone, along with the wind, rain and snow, I've aged a bit more and the engine has progressed a little more. I have turned all of the valve towers, counterbored the valve spring recesses and enjoyed endured the job of cutting the grooves to generate the cooling fins, all 198 of them! Only one near disaster along the way ( 2nd head ) when I forgot to open the flood coolant tap and the swarf jammed and broke the grooving tool tip, so that head has one of it's fins thinner than normal. Vertical learning curve!! Perhaps I've been a bit too​ ambitious attempting this as my first multi cylinder engine especially as it is drawn in imperial measures and I've an old metric lathe with well worn feedscrews, no DRO, and more backlash than should be seen in polite company. Next task is to make a split collet to fit the tower fins so that I can drill the valve guides and bore the recesses for the valve seats . On second thoughts, maybe sort out the machinery first!

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

13 Harvards, that would be worth seeing. When I was at school we would cycle over to Aldridge in the West Midlands to watch the Harvards coming in for service/repair. Happy Days.

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