TDA2030A Audio Amp

[pa4c pa4cParticipant @pa4cpa4c85075]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 14/02/2018 08:07:37:

Quad electrostatics were excellent. They had diaphragms with a large area and very small excursion but needed a big room as they had to be sited well away from a wall for best results.

My Quad ESL57's still are, excellent that is. They knock most everything else into a cocked hat. Just don't overdrive them playing Heavy Rock, there is no real need anyway as they are the only speaker I have found that the word "immersive" really applies to. You just need to be selective as to which amp you use to drive them.

The most asinine comment I ever read on any forum anywhere with regard to "Hi-Fi" was a moderator claiming he could tell the difference in the positioning of the fuse in the supply cable to an amplifier by ear alone. It pretty much did for me with Hi-Fi and the bullshit surrounding some of the "accessories". I remember reading about one of Peter Walker's demonstrations (he of QUAD fame) when he discovered he had forgotten the mains lead and went over to a power tool manufacturer's outlet and bought a length of Electric Lawnmower cable to connect the Amps up with. Works for me.

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

Had supper with the 'big cheese' of a Bangkok import/export company back in the 60s. His hifi was a Ferrograph deck into a Quad pre-amp, Quad amp and a pair of Quad electro-statics. Had never heard of the latter previously but was much impressed -. He then put on a Florence Foster Jenkins recording and asked what we thought of it!! Never previously heard of her either!! Get out of that without embarrassment, then

Became quite interested in the quest for 'super-sound' (reinforced concrete window seat speakers etc.!!) until one of the more cynical critics pointed out that the ONLY way to get REPEATABLE sound quality of ANY sort was via headphones, as any other output would inevitably be affected by position, room contents, curtains etc. That observation has saved me a considerable amount of cash over the years

rgds

Bill

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Mark,

I have a pair of ELS and the lounge is just the "right length" for good results!!!

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

About 10 years ago when I was doing a lot of hybrid vehicle work in Korea for Mobis (electrical compt division of Hyundai), I had a tour of their brand new R&D centre just outside Seoul where our customer team was based. This place was simply staggering, with whole vehicle EMC chambers and audio anechoic chambers ("vehicle" as in HGV). Amongst other things, they developed car audio systems there and demonstrated their audio refenece system to us visitors.

The autitorium was the size of a typical cinema with controllable wall coverings etc and the multiple speaker stacks would have been big enough to climb inside. There was also a large screen for video and they played some Eagles live tracks for us. The sound was simply stunning and I've never come close to experiencing anything since. The recordings weren't simple CDs apparently but even so, they were doing something very special, not least in terms of the financial investment involved. Nothing to do with gold plated knobs or directional cable woo science, simply technical excellence on a vast scale. And of course, not a valve in sight (sound?).

Personally, I simply make do with a miniature run of the mill Class D amp from banggood (CSR8630 chipset – single chip Bluetooth audio ROM platform and TI TPA3116 Class D output) and run 320k MP3 files from my NAS – pretty crappy I suppose but years of self abuse have taken care of any need for further improvement.

Murray

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

One of my old colleagues makes his own electro static speakers and headphones – I used to worry about the amount of kV he had across his head. I’ve had some niceish kit in my time but have come to the conclusion that any manufacturer that won’t subject their kit to blind testing is selling snake oil.

Rod

Edited By Roderick Jenkins on 14/02/2018 14:25:23

[NIALL HORNParticipant @niallhorn50878]

You might like to browse the results from Bellmans Winchester (uk) sale on December 12th 2017 – lots 539 plus

http://bellmans.co.uk/sales/winchester-sales/wdec2017/?page=21#sale-lots

and see what you missed. Don't look at the early lots from this sale unless you have a taste for the seriously politically incorrect!

Niall

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

Still use my Quad Electostatics bought in early 70s (my mother was convinced I bought rather expensive central heating radiators!) – the Quad Amp developed too much hum (suspect all power caps need replacing and has been sitting on a shelf for last 7 years) speakers now driven from a Arcam amp which has advantage of remote control (still have a Revox tape deck + linear vinyl deck but not used for years as CDs have taken over.

[HughEParticipant @hughe]

It's a bit spooky that this topic came when I was clearing out the loft (orders from er indoors). I found WWs from 69 to 81 and reread all the Hi Fi articles and pro and cons of the Semi vs Valves and does current dumping really make a difference! Lots of good articles from Linsey-Hood et al.

Found a car radio I made from an RTV kit and the Dolby Noise Reducer (unfinished). I will see if the radio is still working.

Next task is to get a KEF B139 to repair my Cambridge audio R40s.

I have just refoamed my AR7 speakers and very pleased with the results. I got them from speaker-repairs.co.uk

Hugh

[JezParticipant @jez]

Posted by pa4c pa4c on 14/02/2018 11:03:59:

The most asinine comment I ever read on any forum anywhere with regard to "Hi-Fi" was a moderator claiming he could tell the difference in the positioning of the fuse in the supply cable to an amplifier by ear alone. It pretty much did for me with Hi-Fi and the bullshit surrounding some of the "accessories". I remember reading about one of Peter Walker's demonstrations (he of QUAD fame) when he discovered he had forgotten the mains lead and went over to a power tool manufacturer's outlet and bought a length of Electric Lawnmower cable to connect the Amps up with. Works for me.

The BS got too much for me when I read in two articles in the same issue of one of the mags that:

(1) If you remove the 'power on' LED from the Linn power supply which powers the motor of your Linn turntable that you can hear the difference, and

(2) That the colour of the insulation on your interconnect wires makes a difference to the sound.

I stopped buying the magazines at that point.

Jez.

(Grey is best, in case you were wondering…)

[Johnboy25Participant @johnboy25]

I agree Jez… I frequently rolled about laughing when these audiophiles started talking about the good effect of ‘oxygen free copper’ speaker cable! I had a practical approach to HiFi making my own Lindsey Hood class A amplifier and home brew preamp and ‘tone contol’. Happy days!

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

The CD had to make compromises in sample rate and bits to get a normal album to fit on a CD. Although they sound good to me and to get away from vinyl and all the baggage that goes with it was a relief. A medium that only provides part of the story is going to struggle to deserve to be called hifi. The fact that formats like SACD didn't catch on and the extremely compromised MP3 is huge must mean that most people aren't too bothered about hifi. I feel that the media available will always be a limiting factor whatever system you put it through. Although many people have a love of vinyl I don't believe that it can record all the information that is produced by a live performance especially as a tape or digital recording usually sits in the middle as well as microphones. Although we may fool our ears that they are hearing a live performance Logic will tell us that it cannot be true. If you want hifi go to a concert or gig.

Mike

Edited By Mike Poole on 14/02/2018 20:05:47

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, I have a couple of unused TDA2030's

I can't remember if I bought them for a project or if I just acquired them in some sort of sale, they don't have an A on the end of the number though. I also have the fifth edition of Loudspeakers by G. A. Briggs with R. E. Cooke, B. Sc. (Eng.) as Technical Editor.

I bought the book for a guide for making my discotheque speaker enclosures, (although it's lost its dust cover) for two Goodmans Twin Axiom 12" speaker units in each enclosure. My late brother and myself bought the units from Smiths electrical shop in Tottenham Court Road, London. We carried a pair each from there to a garage park in Edgware Road via the underground. As for Valves v/s transistors, my brother and I had various different views on the subject, however I built a stereo valve amp from a design in Babani BP12 Hi-Fi, P. A. , Guitar & Discotheque Amplifier Design Book. That was a push-pull design using EL84 valves giving 15 watts per channel, the output transformers for which were bought from Henrys Radio in Edgware Road, London and the Valves were Zaerux from Z & I Aero Services Ltd., in Tottenham Court Road. I still have the amp in an outbuilding, but it's way past its sell by date, but it did do a lot of disco's in its day. The two enclosures with the Twin Axiom's are accompanied with a small unit each that houses two High Frequency units and crossovers, the Hi Frequency units I bought in a shop in Leicester but the crossovers I made from a design that was published in ETI magazine, two crossovers were made for each unit so they could by used on a 4ohm or 16ohm system. The speakers are still in use in my lounge, connected up to my HF-Fi and still sound good.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 14/02/2018 23:59:19

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Mike Poole on 14/02/2018 20:05:13:

Although we may fool our ears that they are hearing a live performance Logic will tell us that it cannot be true. If you want hifi go to a concert or gig.

Very few live gigs will offer anything remotely like the sound quality of a tidied up live recording (even Jeff Lynne's ELO!)

That's said, any reproduction is incomparable with a live experience – the interplay between the musicians and each other and the audience means every performance is unique. The times I spent with a bunch of mates, a couple of guitars and The Beatles Complete murdering some of the best pop songs ever in the gyp room were probably as enjoyable as any CD or vinyl, but no-one would want to hear them recorded!

That said, I have always preferred live recordings to studio ones, even if they have been 'tidied up'. To me the appeal of albums like 'Live Rust', 'Live and Dangerous' and 'Live at Leeds' is partly the limitations and added opportunities provided by playing live. I also have to admit to being hugely smug about some of the live recordings that have me in the audience – notably Stevie Ray Vaughan's set at Reading 1983 on his first visit to the UK.

Neil

[Peter SpinkParticipant @peterspink21088]

Surprised this hasn’t come up in the thread so far.

**LINK**

Discuss!

Pete

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 15/02/2018 09:36:18:Very few live gigs will offer anything remotely like the sound quality of a tidied up live recording (even Jeff Lynne's ELO!)

I suppose that depends on your individual interpretation of the term "sound quality" .

Part of the experience of live rock and pop music is the distortion introduced by the amplifiers, speakers, and so on. Who can say what sound is right? It is a matter of personal preference.

Orchestral music on the other hand played on un-amplified instruments in a concert hall is a different matter. IMHO.

Russell

[Martin 100Participant @martin100]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 15/02/2018 09:36:18:

any reproduction is incomparable with a live experience

Absolutely, and just as well as one concert , maybe in the late 80's / early 90's caused me to curl up in a ball and hide behind the seat in front to try and avoid the painful bass that coincided with the resonant frequency of my chest cavity. I must have been around 30 rows from the front so who knows what they were feeling closer to the speakers. If could have moved without vomiting over everyone I would have walked out. P.S. No drink was involved!

[Geoff TheasbyParticipant @geofftheasby]

I have taken a special interest in 'audiophiles' ludicrous proposals regarding fuses, cables, connectors, etc. Whenever I want a good laugh, I head for the previously mentioned Peter Belt's website, and others, praising oxygen free copper cables (All commercial copper is oxygen free, house wiring, water pipes, steam locomotive fireboxes etc., it's in the nature of the refining process) square wire, skin effect (at audio!) sticky labels or grains of rice resting on top of the speaker cabinets, there is no lunacy which they ignore. And the cost! £25 for a 5p fuse with a label stuck on. It's been 'conditioned' you see, for xx hours and didn't blow…

Geoff

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

ing lPosted by Neil Wyatt on 15/02/2018 09:36:18:

Posted by Mike Poole on 14/02/2018 20:05:13:

That said, I have always preferred live recordings to studio ones, even if they have been 'tidied up'. To me the appeal of albums like 'Live Rust', 'Live and Dangerous' and 'Live at Leeds' is partly the limitations and added opportunities provided by playing live. I also have to admit to being hugely smug about some of the live recordings that have me in the audience – notably Stevie Ray Vaughan's set at Reading 1983 on his first visit to the UK.

Neil

+1 for live recordings even if they have been worked on, I would add UFO Strangers in the Night to your list even if it does get criticised as a best of from the tour and even having studio bits added in, who knows the truth? I have been to some gigs where the sound has been shocking even for the headlining band, it seems common practice to sabotage the support. It appears it is not down to incompetent sound engineers but the band turning up their amps rather than the monitors so the sound engineer cannot compensate. Also find that some venues with a house PA have a good sound engineer that knows his venue but the band use their own man and its crap. Pink floyd always made an effort with their sound and have always sounded very good. Due to late arrival at a PF gig at the now defunct London Arena we were sat in the vip area right behind the mixer, the sound was excellent there but distracting watching what was going on on the desks, some of the VIPs were quite distracting as well.

Mike

[john swift 1Participant @johnswift1]

Hi Peter

the Nutube looks like an updated version of the Nuvistor valves
used in the head amplifiers in the Ampex 2-inch quadruplex vt machines (~1960?)

Hi Mike

In the past I used to have various band managers trying to tell me how to mix during rehearsals
on transmission I ignored them
and only took notice of the IBA and BT (BT didn't like their microwave links being over driven)

John

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 15/02/2018 10:33:26:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 15/02/2018 09:36:18:Very few live gigs will offer anything remotely like the sound quality of a tidied up live recording (even Jeff Lynne's ELO!)

I suppose that depends on your individual interpretation of the term "sound quality" .

Part of the experience of live rock and pop music is the distortion introduced by the amplifiers, speakers, and so on. Who can say what sound is right? It is a matter of personal preference.

Orchestral music on the other hand played on un-amplified instruments in a concert hall is a different matter. IMHO.

Russell

I suspect we agree, to a point.

Even the finest auditorium (e.g the revamped Albert Hall) will only offer the very best listening experience to a small percentage of the audience, most of whom (including me) wouldn't be able to detect the difference though.

Most live music (of all types) is played in venues awash with reverberation, awkward echoes and resonance. Fortunately the brain assesses the acoustics of wherever you are and decodes the original content pretty darn well – something 'audiophiles' comprehensively ignore.

The best sound is usually at an open air rock festival, especially for a rich, pure bottom end sound, although the top end can be a bit wanting, sometimes being projected far above the heads of the audience.

I far prefer hearing live music, one factor is that the brain fills in the gaps, especially if you are familiar with the music, so under powered vocals, muddy bass or poor balance become less important. You've only got to hear Black Sabbath's Live at Last to appreciate how bad live sound can be, but it's till an exciting album to listen to.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

My first foray into Stereo was to make a Mullard 5-5 Amp. Having heard a stereo record it intrigued me to make an Amp. This i made in the smallest footprint I could get it into and then put it with a turntable with stero capability. Then browsed all the record shops for stereo recordings and as this was in 1957/8 obviously some of them were a bit iffy. I remember wiring up the speakers the wrong way and. 'Motorboating' on the solid floor.

Later i made plug in jacks with a Diode and a tunable beehive cap. and a resistor to a single frequency circuit to pick up radio stations. It worked very well and saved me buying a wireless licence as no one would think a plug in Jack was a radio device. Luckily I had access to an LCR bridge at work so making up these circuits was easy, I think the Diodes were 001's. At that time I was working on massive radio transmitters with water cooled valves about 3 foot tall.Also had 50 HP electric blowers to cool the kit. Radio TX's were E10's and E11's.

In the mid Seventies I was in Dortmund and we would go to the big shops and they had demo's of Hi Fi kit with speakers 1 mtr x 1 mitr square pushing out X watts making the place vibrate, mainly German martial music with Glockenspiels. If you stood in the right place the Stereo effect was terrific, it was like standing right in front of the Band. Nothing I ever bought could match it.

Clive

Edited By Clive Hartland on 15/02/2018 16:51:36

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Was it Malcom Sargent who said that a composer who's work premiered at the Royal Albert Hall (before mushrooms were installed) was at least guaranteed of 3 hearings of his work, even if two of them were only echoes…

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

A couple of gigs had memorable sound problems, I went to the Great British Music Festival in 1976 at Olympia London, the opening day had terrible reflections from the rear wall, we heard it all at least twice, by the third day they had hung some heavy drapes to cut down the reflections which improved thing a lot. Bob Dylan at Blackbushe Airport was outside but the PA had satellite stacks out in the arena and they should probably have used a delay line to sync them with the stage PA, as it was you could hear the delay from the stage compared to the satellite, perhaps we should have got there earlier and been nearer the stage, legend has it that there were 250,000 of us there and it's not often Eric Clapton is the support band.

Mike

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

Clive – interesting reference to 'standing right in front of the Band'. One of the most impressive sound 'experiences' I recall was in the 60s, when we did a winching demo at the Cheltenham Tattoo. Left the helo at Innsworth and tagged onto the finale parade. The music was by the massed bands of the Royal Regiment of Transport (5 of them). Heading down the arena was fine but the effect on the counter-march turn was mind-blowing. Presumably the change from facing away to facing towards of all that brass!! Can still feel that 'hair on the back of your neck' effect!!

rgds

Bill

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

entered twice in error

Edited By Cornish Jack on 15/02/2018 17:21:35

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