Taps and dies

[Roger King 1Participant @rogerking1]

I have used Tap-die in London for years, and am very sorry to see they’ve closed for good. Needing a new BSF set, I bought one sold (and marked) as HSS from another well known UK supplier. They don’t look as strong as the old T-D set (see photo – new one on right), but I was very surprised when the 1/4BSF taper lost some teeth at first use when I was using it to clean up an existing thread in a clevis pin fork. This was mild steel, and as ever I was using plenty of Trefolex. I’m not a professional engineer, but this seemed a bit odd to me. Is there a supplier out there of more durable tap and die sets?

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Try Jurassic tools or j eadon engineering

[JAParticipant @ja]

There are many good suppliers. I use Avon Taps & Dies (because they are local) and Drill Service (Horley) Ltd. Both have good web sites. Don’t worry about them being industrial suppliers, they are more than happy to take your money.

Never buy used taps or dies. They are likely to be worn out and not cut to size.

JA

[peak4Participant @peak4]

It looks like The Tap & Die Company (and stock ?? ) may have been bought out by a Sheffield company C R Tools Ltd

“Here at C  R Tools we are proud to announce we have acquired The Tap & Die Co. Ltd from Zubin. With 49 years in the industry Zubin is well regarded and he has built up an amazing stock collection, along with a reputation for quality products.
We are now able to offer you Taps, Dies and Dienuts alongside our current range of tools which are all stocked in Sheffield UK, and we are committed to offering you the same excellent service as you experienced in the past.”

I’ve had no connection with them, so can’t pass comment on their products or trading practices.

Stocked Cutting Tools

Bill

 

[JA]

On JA Said:

….I use Avon Taps & Dies (because they are local) and Drill Service (Horley) Ltd.

…..

Never buy used taps or dies. They are likely to be worn out.

Beaten to it! I’ve been using Drill Service for many years, and have generally been very happy. I have just started using Avon, and so far I am impressed. I’ve just bought some 5BA taps from Avon, they cut very freely even in gummy black steel. I was never that impressed with Tap&Die; used them mostly for ME threads, to be used on brass.

I’ve got dozens of secondhand taps, and dies, and so far so good. If I need 3/4″BSW for a one off I’m not going to buy a new tap. To be fair I normally screwcut the external thread so can make it fit.

Andrew

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Drill service are excellent, Zoro/Cromwell tools are industrial suppliers. I’m assuming you returned the faulty tap as not fit for purpose and who did said tap come from? Another ‘well known UK supplier’ is no help to anyone.

Tony

[Roger King 1Participant @rogerking1]

Wow, what a very helpful forum!  Thanks all, you your excellent replies.  I have to admit to not following in my father’s footsteps as a model engineer, but put my Super 7 and Sieg to good use making bits for either an XK140 Jag or (more commonly) my 1937 Riley two-seater.

These recommendations are great – and glad to see that the T-D stock has not all gone in a skip somewhere, the thought of which filled me with dread.  That said the folk in Avon might be worth contacting as the recommendations are very encouraging!

And now, back to my Girling rod-operated drum brakes,

Roger

[Roger King 1Participant @rogerking1]

Tony, as an amateur I’m a little reluctant to start naming suppliers as in my case it’s always possible I was doing something that could be considered as unreasonable (although that said, my tired old T&D tap finished the job the other had started with no trouble)!  I have accounts with Zoro and Cromwell, but was looking for particular advice for users, which I’m very happy with.

[File HandleParticipant @filehandle]

I have bought many second hand taps and dies. The last lot I bought were 5 for £1 – certainly not warn out. My main metric ones came as a job lot for £10, at least 3 of each size 5 to 14mm plus – virtually all Presto or Dormer- and unused! plus a few dies and an assortment of vintage tap and die holders. However, I would not buy them online want to view them. I guess that where I buy them very few want them so go go for little money.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

I have had a number of carbon steel taps and dies in uncommon-ish thread sizes from Tracy Tools for small lots of components for the railway, some in tougher materials. All have cut smoothly and accurately and have lasted the course without noticeable wear or blunting.

And certainly without spalling out whole teeth! >:-o

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

Further to JA (about seven messages up)

It is not always good advice not to buy used taps. It all depends on what you need them for. I use them a lot to hold threaded parts in a lathe for further operations, as they are strong, and generally dead straight and true. And how else can you hold a new-made nut to chamfer the ends, or add grooves, than by holding them on an accurate threaded part.

In my experience …

Tim

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

Hi All,

I have to say that we have sold literally dozens and dozens of various lots of Taps & Dies of all sorts in our EBay listings and never ever had a complaint.

We do make sure that they are all HSS and any where the size is unreadable or broken are binned.

They all have the flutes cleaned of old thick gunk etc and then into the ultrasonic cleaner.

We give clear close up pics  of the items as well.

Mostly they come from model engineers workshops that have gone to auction so rarely heavily used and they certainly represent good value.

Just my two cents worth…

Cheers, Martin

[File HandleParticipant @filehandle]

Going to disagree with you Martin, prefer to buy them in their working cloths, gives a much better idea of how they were used / stored. but only buy them if I can handle them, gives a far better idea than a photo.

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Just to go back to the photo, do the threads on the right hand tap look kind of flattened on the crests to anyone else?

Rob

[Grindstone Cowboy]

On Grindstone Cowboy Said:

Just to go back to the photo, do the threads on the right hand tap look kind of flattened on the crests to anyone else?

Rob

Yes on closer examination they do.

Tony

[Roger King 1Participant @rogerking1]

That might be just an effect of the flash I had to use to get rid of shadows in the photo.  They’re actually still pretty sharp, as might be expected for only having been used once.  That doesn’t answer the question about the fractured sections, though.

I had a look at the Avon site for box sets, and they do look rather like the one that has broken, with the waisted shank design.  There’s no mention of who makes them, and I also can’t see any mention anywhere of whether or not these are HSS – going by other sites and their prices, I suspect not.  I don’t need BSW but they do say they can build up sets to customers’ orders.

[Anonymous]

It says on the Avon website that they manufacture the taps and dies, and that the taps are made from M2 HSS.

Andrew

[Roger King 1Participant @rogerking1]

Ah yes, thanks – I did find a page that mentioned HSS, but it wasn’t easy to find through the ‘taps and dies’ drop down box.  I can’t find any mention of where they’re made.

Could get expensive – I need sets containing taper and bottom taps ideally, don’t really need the second tap (which is the only one they have in their sets).  Also a BSF-only set would be better than mixed BSF and BSW, so I’d need a custom set, most likely.  1930s-1950s car restoration is a fussy business!

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The problem with buying sets is you will likely end up with more tap wrenches and die stocks that you probably don’t need so may be better off just buying individual taps but if you do want a good quality set of just BSF then Volkel are good but not cheap, Rotagrip should have them in the UK.

Spiral flute taps are another option, you would just need the one of those, individual Volkel

[JAParticipant @ja]

This may be off subject. A fellow apprentice commented that when you buy a set of tool, in his case a socket set, all you are really buying is the box. I have always followed the advise, buy individual tools when needed.

And keep them in the little plastic containers they came in. Do not store cutters, taps and dies loose.

JA

[Roger King 1Participant @rogerking1]

These are all valid points, and I think it would make sense to stick with my various sets now and just buy good quality single replacements as they become necessary.  I have plenty of boxes, and don’t need any more!

Now I have plenty of leads on suppliers too, so thanks again all.

[Author]

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