Taper nosed drill chuck

[Oily RagParticipant @oilyrag]

Made by Cardinal and Brooke Tool

[Oily RagParticipant @oilyrag]

Amongst the selection of tools I have recently acquired were these unusual taper nosed drill chucks. They were manufactured by Cardinal and Brooke Tool of Birmingham. The Brooke Tool chucks are engraved as "Made for Alfred Herbert Ltd, Coventry England" It also carries the legend "Manufactured by Brooke Tool , Birmingham, Eng" and the legend "No 1, CAP 1/4", Pat. 381441"

I looked up the Patent Number and found it was issued in 1932.

I was trying to find a key to fit this chuck and wondered if anyone has a similar chuck, and if so, what Jacobs key number fits it. I have tried most of mine with no success. I assume it uses a Jacobs 'key' as they have Jacobs #1 mounting tapers. Considering they are most likely pre war they are in great condition being unused!

Upper chuck the Cardinal made unit (with #1 MT / JT1 shank) and lower the Brook Tool item (with JT 1 mount)

Close up of the Brook Tool engraving/etching

Martin

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I have one of those ‘somewhere’ … in much worse cosmetic condition than yours

Thanks for the patent reference: it helps explain why they work so nicely !

Sorry, can’t recall ever having used a key with it

MichaelG.

[Oily RagParticipant @oilyrag]

Yes Michael, they both have a very nice feel – the Brook Tool one especially. I had to soak them in white spirit for a few hours as the grease they were originally packed in had solidified to something like cement. The patent drawing is interesting in the use of a conical scroll – must have been expensive to make!

Martin

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

You could buy one of those multisize keys and get an idea what the right size is.

[egaParticipant @ega]

A Jacobs no 3 seems about right for the gear but you would have to reduce the diameter of the pilot (this applies to my Cardinal 1/2" chuck with integral 2MT).

GHT favoured the Cardinal which, of course, tightens the "wrong" way round; the key bears a stamped arrow and the notaton "To Lock".

Edited By ega on 21/04/2021 16:44:22

[Oily RagParticipant @oilyrag]

ega,

That is an good point about the chucks 'working' the wrong way round – the patent mentions the scroll can be made in either direction depending on whether the drilling operation is for right hand or left hand cutting. Both the Cardinal and the Brook versions I have operate the 'correct' way – but then I checked my other chucks, I still sometimes get the opening/closing direction wrong when adjusting to size, even after all these years, but which in hindsight is the intuitive way to tighten and release drills when in the tailstock.

The Cardinal has a key pin hole of 0.192" (sloppy 3/16th? ) whilst the Brook has a key pin hole of 0.188" (snug 3/16th! ). I'll have to dig around to see if I have a #3 Jacobs key (B&D power drill size? ).

I did recently have to modify a 'Charlees' chuck to take a 5/16th key pin which then suited a Jacobs key (the pin size was 6.8mm!)

I hadn't noticed the #1MT shank was integral on the Cardinal, the Brook made one has either a #1JT or possibly a #3 Jarno Taper – the hole measures 0.400" as best I can deduce, so out for both those at 0.384" and 0.375" respectively. As it appears to be a very slow taper it may even be a B&S #4 1/2. Time to get my calibrated small balls out!

[egaParticipant @ega]

Oily Rag:

I omitted to offer my congratulations on your excellent acquisition; my own chuck was a used find but still works well. Your left or right hand cutting point reminds me that the current self-tightening chucks are also self-loosening!

I do find the Jacobs chuck key range a bit confusing and it may help to add that the no 3 key I suggested fits the Jacobs no 34 chuck body.

As to the MT, I called it integral because I can't see any way to remove it. The patent drawing may resolve this.

Edited By ega on 21/04/2021 18:54:58

Edited By ega on 21/04/2021 18:55:28

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by ega on 21/04/2021 18:54:43:

[…]

As to the MT, I called it integral because I can't see any way to remove it. The patent drawing may resolve this.

.

… or may not [because such drawings often illustrate ‘one embodiment’ and are not definitive in terms of production]

.

.

MichaelG.

[sorry to be a bore]

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

among the junk bought at auction (usually thrown in with something I wanted) is a Cardinal with the same Pat num capacity 1/2″ – the holes are I think nominal 1/4″ but not a jacobs type as all 3 holes are now oval so obviously used with a tommy bar in the hole to wind the chuck mounted on a 1″ shaft though this has a small flat (? if original) on end of shaft – length of chuck 3.25″ with 2″ diameter at shaft end

Edited By Frances IoM on 21/04/2021 19:47:26

[Oily RagParticipant @oilyrag]

I have got 2 Cardinals and one Brook made chuck. Both Cardinals have the integral shanks (that's a definite! I looked at the drawing in the patent and it is exactly the same ) I need to measure the taper in the back of the Brook one as it does look very shallow, and I don't have a JT1 to try in it at the moment. Probably need to make some test tapers up to check it/

[egaParticipant @ega]

MichaelG:

Many thanks for posting the drawing which resembles my own chuck and I think confirms that my taper shank is indeed integral.

I note that one of Oily Rag's chucks has a taper back (?JT1) and would comment that there seems to be insufficient meat for, say, the JT6 taper commonly found on 1/2" capacity drill chucks.

Incidentally, my reason for wanting to fit an alternative taper shank was that I thought my 1/2" chuck rather too large for the Myford Seven; at well over 1KG it is getting on for twice as heavy as the 1/2" Jacobs no 32.

The Cardinal design is somewhat reminiscent of the Taylor chuck.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Finally remembered to check Grace’s Guide

Some excellent advertisements … including this one: **LINK**

https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/File:Im193308AE-Brooke.jpg#filelinks

MichaelG.

[egaParticipant @ega]

I see from one of the adverts that it came in a keyless version, too.

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

Back in the late 1950s the Boxford where I worked had one of these chucks,in the 6 years I was there it proved reliable and had a good grip.15 years ago at an autojumble ,a stall holder ,not the usual junk dealer, was changing his weekday tooling business and concentrating on metric tooling only,so had loads of new old stock imperial taps dies drills etc and in amonst the stock was a new boxed cardinal 1/2 inch chuck ,the chap said he was sorry the key was missing so i could have it for £5 what a bargain!,I soon found a key in my odd tool box though I do not know what make or type.Works well on my Master 2500.Yes the Cardinal it does appear to have a similar tapered screw/scroll design to the Taylor 3 jaw chucks. The Wilson 8 in lathe again where I worked had one of these Taylors and it always had an excellent grip on workpieces,in recent years when I aquired a very good Colchester Triumph with a good Burnerd 10 inch 3 jaw i found that work would slip in the Burnerd and have often thought that I never had that trouble with the Taylor chuck.

[Oily RagParticipant @oilyrag]

I see from the Grace's Guide, highlighted by MG, that the Cardinal Brand was a brand name of Brooke Tool! You certainly learn something every day.

The Brooke Tool chuck (marked as made for Alfred Herberts ) has the suspected JT#1 mounting taper (I have still to check this taper) in a sleeve which is secured by the grub screw seen in the integral shanked patent drawing. The chucks I have are #1 and have a capacity of 1/4" but are very robust for this size when compared to the Jacobs equivalent.

Martin

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