Swisstec machines from Pro Machine Tools

[Terry Howlett 1Participant @terryhowlett1]

[Terry Howlett 1Participant @terryhowlett1]

Has anyone had any experience, or any knowledge of the Swisstec series of Lathes sold through Pro Machine Tools? They look very like some of the Warco series but I cant find anything on You tube or elsewhere about these lathes. They also do an ST-20LV milling machine which looks very like a Warco WM-16 to me?

Any information appreciated

Terry

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Pro Machine Tools list a series of these machine *** LINK *** which are most likely made by Weiss in China. I doubt whether any of them have been anywhere near Switzerland. Interesting to note that the whole range appear to be out of stock for 2-3 months.

John

[VicParticipant @vic]

There was a thread some back about machines that were supposedly made in Germany. I can’t remember the details but I think it turned out they were made in China and “quality” checked in Germany? There have been some complaints on the net about the quality of some of these machines though so I wonder if they’re any better than those offered elsewhere? One brand name I think was Optimum with a snazzy purple paint job. Have you tried looking for reviews of any specific machines?

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Just another importer who has ordered a couple of containers full with a different paint scheme. Made a few tweaks to the spec to differentiate them. Could be PMT themselves establishing a house brand or wanting to distance themselves a bit if there are complaints.

[Terry Howlett 1Participant @terryhowlett1]

Yes Journeyman I have seen the PMT site, thanks.

Thanks Vic. I realise they are probably Chinese but I wanted to understand if they are the same machines as the Warco/Optimum/Other versions that all seem to share the same origin. I suspect they are. I have tried looking for reviews and even you tube videos, but this actual brand name seems elusive.

I agree Bazyle.

I was really after finding someone who maybe had first had experience. The model that suits me is the ST-210x400V with pre fitted DRO. This one looks like a slightly bigger WARCO's WM-180, and is just about what I need. Don't really want anything heavier.

Thanks all

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Yes same as Weiss WM210V which sits between the WM180 and WM240 in Warco's range. The Pro Machine versions are a bit pricey compared to similar from Amadeal, Toolco, Chester, Warco and others who offer the badge engineered Weiss machines.

John

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Well if it's the size that matters it is basically from the same mould as a Chester DB8

[Martin Hamilton 1Participant @martinhamilton1]

Jason the DB8 is a heavier machine with a bed width of 135mm, same width as the likes of warco WM240 & WM250, The WM210v bed is only 100mm wide & a much lighter & smaller machine all round at 70kg, the WM210v is basically a longer bed (400mm between centres + 105 mm centre height) version as WM180 or Chester DB7 . Amadeal now have the latest version of the WM210V x 400 fitted with the more powerfull brushless motor.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Thanks martin, I should have looked closer and not just at the general look of the machine and the 210 x 400

[LathejackParticipant @lathejack]

I visited Pro Machine Tools a few years ago, mainly to have a look at the Ceriani lathe they offer. While there I took a close look at all the machines on display, and in particular a Swisstec 10×22 lathe.

The Swisstec lathe I examined was the common Chinese made 10×22 machine sold by many other suppliers, with variable speed, a quick change gearbox with three feed rates, and powered cross and longitudinal fine feed. This one also had a headstock spindle flange with a quick release mechanism also found on just some of the other 10×22 lathes.

The build, fit and detailing was certainly no better than other machines offered by Warco, Chester, SPG or Amadeal etc. In fact the rotating knurled collar that operates the spindle quick release was rather thin on this SwissTec lathe, and was slightly buckled where it was pinched by the three securing nuts.

I had a chat with the pleasant chap there, and he did agree that he wasn't particularly convinced that SwissTec were anything special.

[Terry Howlett 1Participant @terryhowlett1]

I saw that the Chester DB8 was in fact bigger than what I seek, and I think its the fact that the Weiss WM210 sits between two more popular models, but meets my needs almost spot on that brought me to consider the Swisstec offering. The feedback here has helped me understand more clearly about the origins of that machine, and maybe I'll look at that Amadeal machine more closely next.

Thanks again to you all. All your comments have really helped my thinking.

Terry

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

What astonishes me is that, although I first assumed SwissTec to be a brand invented by Pro Machine Tools … They actually appear to [also?] distribute tools from a long-established company of that name.

See the logo on this page: **LINK**

https://www.emcomachinetools.co.uk

and compare: **LINK**

https://www.amfori.org/content/swisstec-sourcing-ltd

and also: **LINK**

https://www.gregmach.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Swiss-Tec-ST-480BDS-Pg.-1-17.pdf

I wonder what business they were in, in 1865 … and where they were then based.

MichaelG.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

I wonder what business they were in, in 1865 … and where they were then based.

MichaelG.

Nowt wrong with a bit of speculation. My theory that they exported the Tongues and Eyes for Cuckoo clocks from a small shed behind Swiss Cottage….

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Terry Howlett 1 on 09/01/2020 09:39:58:

I saw that the Chester DB8 was in fact bigger than what I seek, and I think its the fact that the Weiss WM210 sits between two more popular models, but meets my needs almost spot on that brought me to consider the Swisstec offering. The feedback here has helped me understand more clearly about the origins of that machine, and maybe I'll look at that Amadeal machine more closely next.

Thanks again to you all. All your comments have really helped my thinking.

Terry

My advice Terry is to stop worrying and buy one! These machines are all based on out-of-copyright European designs (where Europe includes the Soviet Bloc), made mostly in China. The design is sensible, often with useful improvements like DRO's and Brushless Motors but the machines are made down to a price. It's not unusual for new machines be fundamentally sound but marred by a number of -usually minor – defects related to fit and finish.

I suggest it's best to buy from a trustworthy UK source. As these machines are all similar, you want to buy from a vendor who will calmly replace or refund in the event of trouble. In particular avoid an ebay fly-by-night ; very cheap machines may be factory rejects. Likewise, buying on the internet, double check the Terms & Conditions: – one example I looked at required the buyer to return the machine to a depot in Germany at his own expense. This was in the small print.

In the UK I'm not aware that any of the established vendors (such as those advertising on this site), are untrustworthy. But it does seem that some are a shade better than others, for example there's a difference between an importer who takes the trouble to visit China and establish a relationship with the maker and an importer who just orders a container full of machine tools by email. In the first camp, ArcEuroTrade perhaps score highest praise on the forum but they only sell a limited range of lathes. Warco and Axminster also have good reputations; Axminster are pricey because their machines come with an extended warranty. I have no experience of Amadeal but don't recall any complaints about them.

I've forgotten the name, but there was a German importer who claimed German quality for their Chinese Lathes; an inspector resident in China, and a suggestion the machines were tweaked in Germany. The kit was distinctly more expensive than the competition, and I'm not convinced the extra was cost worth it. "Quality" means nothing in the absence of a specification! As most faults on the machines are minor, it may not be sensible to pay big money to fix silly problems easily mended by a keen hobbyist.

I wasted far too much time dithering about details rather than just getting stuck in. Motor size doesn't matter much, and the adverts can be misleading (do they mean input or output?). After blowing a couple of years of irretrievable workshop time on ill-considered research (much depends on what the machine is for, and I wasn't clear about that), I bought a mini-lathe from Warco.

Initially I was disappointed because I foolishly expected it would cut any old scrap metal I had lying about. Turned out my scrap box was full of difficult alloys; it was an absolute revelation when I bought new metal (like EN1A) intended to be machined; suddenly the lathe went from struggling and poor finish, to delivering consistently good results. Mostly the metal, partly me learning how to drive properly. (Too gentle and too hard are both sinful!)

One benefit of buying a mini-lathe is the value of a relatively inexpensive learning experience. After a year or two experimenting the owner will be much clearer about what he really needs, and what to look for in a lathe. In my case, the mini-lathe turned out to be too small: the advice to buy the biggest lathe you can manage is excellent. (Unless you want to specialise in clocks or small models).

Mini-lathes have several shortcomings, none of them serious for general purpose work. For example, I didn't care much for the screw-cutting banjo – it works OK, but has two awkwardly placed clamp nuts and is fiddly to set-up. Beware, when seeking perfection – there is no end to spending money on nice to have features! Although the banjo on my big lathe is much handier, I now want a proper gearbox and clutch…

Dave

[VicParticipant @vic]

An old workmate bought a DB8 Terry, it’s a nice machine.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by pgk pgk on 09/01/2020 10:44:25:

I wonder what business they were in, in 1865 … and where they were then based.

MichaelG.

Nowt wrong with a bit of speculation. My theory that they exported the Tongues and Eyes for Cuckoo clocks from a small shed behind Swiss Cottage….

[Terry Howlett 1Participant @terryhowlett1]

Thanks again all those responding, especially Dave "SillyOldDuffer" for some excellent and thought provoking advice. I am very guilty of spending too much time pondering this that and the other and really need to get on with this fascinating Hobby. My size concern has been driven by worries of getting the thing off the delivery pallet and onto a decent bench, but as my own wife pointed out, we know a few big local lads and I could always borrow an engine hoist! I fully retired (a bit early) late last year, and also now have the space needed, so my decision will be made in the next week or so once I sort out availability and take a last look at some real lathes at Alexander Palace next Friday!

If anyone will be there that day I'd be happy to meet and say hi

Thanks once again all.

Terry

Edited By Terry Howlett 1 on 09/01/2020 13:49:35

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