Swindon Wheel Castings

[houstoncengParticipant @houstonceng]

Hi Guys

A fellow Model Engineer has worn out the wheels on his 5” Gauge GWR “Swindon” and wants to know from whom new castings can be obtained. He has tried most of the well known suppliers to no avail. Definitive answer is required.

Thanks

Andy

[houstoncengParticipant @houstonceng]

Obtaining castings

[Nigel BennettParticipant @nigelbennett69913]

Why not shrink on some steel tyres? Getting blanks flame or laser cut isn’t expensive, and easier than making and fitting new wheels.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Depending on the size you might be able to get hollow bar (very thick wall tube). Loctite would probably work, there isn't a lot of load/area compared with the wheel axle joint.

If you go down this route don't make the mistake one of my acquaintances made, he bought a length and tried to part it off. Pay the extra and get it sawn into blanks just over finished thickness.

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember12892]

[This posting has been removed]

[houstoncengParticipant @houstonceng]

Sorry, don’t recognise M E C H forum. Can you direct me to it.

[houstoncengParticipant @houstonceng]

Asked on Google and, of course, MECH means the ME Clearing House and I have already asked there as well.

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

Has he tried the Blackgate engineering catalogue at the bottom there is a list of wheels but you will have to know the size and other information to see if they have a match

[stephen goodbodyParticipant @stephengoodbody77352]

Hi Andy

I’m not sure whether the wheel dimensions are the same for the two designs, but I believe that GLR Kennions sells wheel castings for the 5” gauge Keith Wilson 4700 loco. It might be worth contacting them with the question.

Best regards

Steve

[houstoncengParticipant @houstonceng]

Posted by Derek Lane on 06/05/2021 23:16:41:

Has he tried the Blackgate engineering catalogue at the bottom there is a list of wheels but you will have to know the size and other information to see if they have a match

I think he’s tried them on the ‘phone. With no computer, he cannot check the list, but I will ask if there was any wheel that could be substituted. AFAIK, it’s a question of crank throw. It appears that 5” Firefly wheels are used now in new builds, but the throw isn’t correct for his Swindon, so he cannot use them. He tends to build using works drawings and that means he has used the correct throw, knowing what he is doing with a King at the moment.

[houstoncengParticipant @houstonceng]

Posted by stephen goodbody on 07/05/2021 00:01:08:

Hi Andy

I’m not sure whether the wheel dimensions are the same for the two designs, but I believe that GLR Kennions sells wheel castings for the 5” gauge Keith Wilson 4700 loco. It might be worth contacting them with the question.

Best regards

Steve

i know he tried them and they didn’t have the Swindon castings. I will ask him about the 4700. As I am not a GWR Guru, I don’t have a clue about the differences between 47xx and any other GWR loco. Is a 47xx Firefly? Or visa versa

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Muddle Engineers Clearing House.

Regards Ian.

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember12892]

[This posting has been removed]

[Peter LayfieldParticipant @peterlayfield]

Thinking of the work involved with new wheels, spinning the exising set between centres and fitting steel tyres would be far easier, and you can easily buy steel thick wall rings to turn up the tyres, think there is quite a bit of useful info on the GL5 website Forum on this topic, they are heat shrunk onto you existing wheels

[stephen goodbodyParticipant @stephengoodbody77352]

Andy,

The 47xx was another GWR 2-8-0, although intended for fast-freight working rather than the hard slog of the 28xx (Swindon). Upon review, the prototype 47xx had significantly larger diameter wheels than the 28xx but I believe a similar cylinder stroke. Hence the crankpin throw will presumably be similar, but I suspect the wheel diameter will present a problem.

I must say that I'm on the same page as many of the other respondents – if your friend's problem is worn treads and/or worn or damaged flanges, and the rest of the wheels and the overall axle assemblies are in good shape, then I would go for the shrink-fit steel tyre solution. In addition to being the most straightforward option from a machining perspective, it would also prevent the need to remove the wheels from the axles, and get the new wheels accurately quartered, and then re-set the eccentrics to suit the new quartering position. It would also presumably be cheaper than buying new wheel castings!

Best regards
Steve

 

Edited By stephen goodbody on 07/05/2021 14:45:46

[houstoncengParticipant @houstonceng]

..I talked to him again today as we were dismantling our MES for removal to its new site. As an aside, it’s shown us how much junk we saved ‘just in case it comes in handy”, and a lot has gone to the scrappy.

Anyway, when he built the loco, he couldn’t get the correct 28xx wheel castings so used the 5” Firefly castings. They, apparently have a shorter stroke, so the crank-pins are are a bit close to the end of the webs. Now he has worn out these wheels, he was hoping to be able to buy the correct wheels on the basis that “a few more 28xx castings should be available by now”. Apparently not !

if the correct wheels cannot be sourced, he was thinking of putting tyres on the current wheels, but wanted to check if he could source correct ones before going down that route.

Edited By houstonceng on 07/05/2021 18:05:04

[Nick HughesParticipant @nickhughes97026]

Have a chat with Mark Wood Wheels.

He may be willing to scale the Gauge 1 28XX wheel castings he already does, up to 5" Gauge for your friend.

I had my 5" Gauge Late Castle Driving wheel castings from him, after asking this same question.

Nick

Edited By Nick Hughes on 07/05/2021 21:15:36

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

A search through the online ME index brings up an item for "Wheel Castings for Swindon (College Engineering Supply)" in volume 155 issue 3764 but I do not have this issue in my collection. The College Engineering Supply website does not list the wheels, but perhaps someone might have this magazine or a phone call could take you forwards?

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

If it is any help, the 47xx Express Goods 2-8-0 engines had 5'8" diameter driving wheels.

The 28xx Heavy Goods 2-8-0 ngines had 4'41/2" diameter driving wheels.

Found in O S Nock's book on "Great Locomotives of the GWR"

Howard

[houstoncengParticipant @houstonceng]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 08/05/2021 08:30:06:

If it is any help, the 47xx Express Goods 2-8-0 engines had 5'8" diameter driving wheels.

The 28xx Heavy Goods 2-8-0 ngines had 4'41/2" diameter driving wheels.

Found in O S Nock's book on "Great Locomotives of the GWR"

Howard

My friend Bob, who is the person wanting the wheels, has explained all about GWR Wheel diameters and crank throws. Sometimes I wish I had not volunteered to enquire on t’internet for him.

[houstoncengParticipant @houstonceng]

Posted by Nick Clarke 3 on 08/05/2021 07:53:20:

A search through the online ME index brings up an item for "Wheel Castings for Swindon (College Engineering Supply)" in volume 155 issue 3764 but I do not have this issue in my collection. The College Engineering Supply website does not list the wheels, but perhaps someone might have this magazine or a phone call could take you forwards?

Model Engineer Laser also list balance weights for College or Firefly wheels, and I have passed on the information that CES might do the wheel, to Bob (my friend on whose behalf I was asking).

As many of us have probably found, ycastings for nearly all the MAP plan locos were available back when LBSC and Martin Evans wrote in the Model Engineer. Sadly, a lot of designs now don’t have castings available from suppliers. Case of “not worth stocking them when we only sell one set every millennium”. Trust Bob to build one of them. Castings for Maid of Kent, Simplex, Speedy, Sweet Pea, and similar “fly off the shelf” quicker than they can be cast. Classic supply and demand.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Sounds like a need to follow prototype practice, and fit steel tyres.

A lot less work that having to machine castings from scratch, IF they can be obtained..

The problem may then be finding a large enough lather in which to do the work! But that would be there whichever route is followed.

Howard

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