Surface Mount Switch

[Colin WilksParticipant @colinwilks45682]

Retro fitting NVR switch.

[Colin WilksParticipant @colinwilks45682]

I am wanting to fit a surface mounted NVR switch to both my Myford Lathe and Fobco drill. Ideally they will have on, off and emergency off buttons like the Axminster item here https://www.axminster.co.uk/kedu-nvr-switch-230v-1ph-e-stop-200093.

I can't believe I'm doing anything out of the ordinary, but this seems to be the only product available, since all other offerings are flush mounted and searching for "surface mount switch box", "pattress box" etc yields no results. Obviously I can make something up to attach any switch to, but I wanted a "proper job" with knock outs to install cable conduit.

Am I missing a trick here, or is the Axminster item the sole contender?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

If it’s any help Colin …

Searching for: “KEDU NVR Switch 230V 1ph E Stop“

returned several suppliers of that item, and also Kedu’s own website

MichaelG.

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Something like this on Amazon

John

Edited By Journeyman on 16/10/2019 10:20:20

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Tricky one! Dunno what the correct search term is for this type of mounting.

Looking for 'Dustproof' and 'Waterproof NVR Switch' gets results worth checking through, but they're imperfect.

Dave

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Deleted post, slow typing!

Edited By Clive Foster on 16/10/2019 10:38:06

[Colin WilksParticipant @colinwilks45682]

Thanks all. No easy answer!

The eBay offering of the Axminster Kedu switch seems to also come from Axminster and their eBay seller's rating seems excellent. One worrying review of the product was that the emergency stop needed pressing "for several seconds" in order to cut the power, which seems a pretty fundamental flaw and I'm guessing was due to either a faulty unit or incorrect wiring.

I don't think Journeyman's Amazon suggestion does the job as I do not think a momentary switch is the same as a NVR (no volt release) switch, the idea of the latter being that if I switch my pillar drill off at the wall socket and then switch it back on at the socket the next day the drill will not start up and surprise me. Why the hell I would do that I don't know, but in my case any degree of idiot proofing is welcome and appropriate!

Still hunting for a supply of surface mount boxes in which to mount all those flush mount switches. I suspect they are so cheap they are not worth anyone's while stocking them for retail.

The internet's wonderful in many ways, but I had hoped to go to a local trade counter and get hold of one of these things before buying. Does that make me an old fart?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Colin Wilks on 16/10/2019 11:13:02:

[…]

Still hunting for a supply of surface mount boxes in which to mount all those flush mount switches. I suspect they are so cheap they are not worth anyone's while stocking them for retail.

[…]

.

I am not familiar with “all those flush mount switches” … so the obvious first question is:

Are they made in a format [depth, fixing-centres, etc.] which is compatible with any standard box ?

MichaelG.

[Stuart Smith 5Participant @stuartsmith5]

I live near the CPC warehouse, so buy quite a few things from them .

They have a whole range of boxes and switches. Is this the sort of box you are looking for?:

**LINK**

the range of switches and boxes is at :

**LINK**

I have no connection with the company, just a customer.

Stuart

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Try this offering from Axminster Tools

**LINK**

regards Martin

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Which is exactly where you started, sorry I should read posts more carefully.

Martin

[Colin WilksParticipant @colinwilks45682]

Thanks for the link Stuart. To answer you and MichaelG, if you Google "NVR Switch" you get a large selection of on/off and emergency stop switches, but only very few are surface mount (i.e. have a box on the back). The majority are flush mount to replace existing switches in machines, and nobody seems to sell the empty plastic back boxes. As I am fitting the switch to the metal cabinet of a Myford lathe I need to surface mount the switch.

[LambtonParticipant @lambton]

Colin, you are correct the Amazon switch referred to by Journeyman is not suitable for proving NVR to very simple machines that have just plain on/off stiches. To provide NVR here must be latching relay in the on circuit that keeps the power on to the machine unless either the off or emergency switch is operated. If the power goes off remotely the relay "drops out" cutting power to the machine and the machine cannot self restart. If the E stop has a rotating knob which stays down when activated this must be reset by twisting it to make it pop out. The machine can them be started normally.

Axminster provide a very simple NVR switch "Unimac magnetic switch" that incorporates a relay that provide NVR but not an E switch. I have had one for many years on a fearsome Duet woodworking machine via a foot switch with every satisfaction.

To do the job properly you should consider fitting a Direct online motor starter + E stop as this set up would provide protection for motor should it become overloaded.

Eric

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

I fitted a NVR on the side of my drill as shown in photo, the on/off was on the side of the drill and difficult for me to use so I purchased on off ebay popped it in a box and extended the wires .

H

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Posted by Lambton on 16/10/2019 11:49:06:

To do the job properly you should consider fitting a Direct online motor starter + E stop as this set up would provide protection for motor should it become overloaded.

Eric

+1 for Eric's suggestion

Emgee

[Colin WilksParticipant @colinwilks45682]

Cracked it. Googling "enclosure junction box" produces what I am after.

Regarding a direct on line motor starter with a separate emergency stop, this makes sense as it protects against overload and allows me to position the stop switch in the most appropriate position, but is this technology compatible with my Crompton Parkinson 240v motor which uses a condenser to start via a centrifugal switch?

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Posted by Colin Wilks on 16/10/2019 11:13:02:

Thanks all. No easy answer!

The eBay offering of the Axminster Kedu switch seems to also come from Axminster and their eBay seller's rating seems excellent. One worrying review of the product was that the emergency stop needed pressing "for several seconds" in order to cut the power, which seems a pretty fundamental flaw and I'm guessing was due to either a faulty unit or incorrect wiring.

I've fitted these Axminster 'KEDU' switches to a number of my older machines – most recently a Coronet Consort table saw I've been restoring (last week). I've also had one fitted to my Super 7 for some years now and I've not had any problems with them. They cut power immediately if you hit the red 'STOP' button, although I normally just use the 'off' button provided – but I certainly tested this function on the Consort last week and it worked just fine.

They do seem to be sneaking up in price but are still affordable. For anyone with an older machine (with just a simple on/off switch – or even worse no switch at all) I think they are a very sensible improvement to make. Of course if I'm working on a machine (e.g. changing a saw blade) – I do still pull the plug out!!

Regards,

IanT

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Posted by Colin Wilks on 16/10/2019 12:58:26:

Cracked it. Googling "enclosure junction box" produces what I am after.

Regarding a direct on line motor starter with a separate emergency stop, this makes sense as it protects against overload and allows me to position the stop switch in the most appropriate position, but is this technology compatible with my Crompton Parkinson 240v motor which uses a condenser to start via a centrifugal switch?

Overload size depends on the motor FLC, usually stamped/printed on the motor plate.
This is listed in Classifieds.

Edited By Emgee on 16/10/2019 23:38:41

[peak4Participant @peak4]

When you're looking for something generic, rather than specific. it's sometimes useful, when using Google, to go for Image, rather than the normal default text output of the results.

It's much more like thumbing through an old paper catalogue so look for something that fits the bill

e.g. NVR Start stop which quite quickly leads to a variety of sources. e.g. ebay

Bill

[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

Posted by peak4 on 17/10/2019 01:49:44:

When you're looking for something generic, rather than specific. it's sometimes useful, when using Google, to go for Image, rather than the normal default text output of the results.

It's much more like thumbing through an old paper catalogue so look for something that fits the bill

e.g. NVR Start stop which quite quickly leads to a variety of sources. e.g. ebay

Bill

That's very interesting but I can't seem to replicate it. How do you get the option of text or image? All I can see when I try is the text version. What am I missing?

Doug

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Doug, probably should have mentioned, PC, rather than phone/tablet; just checked and works on my phone with Chrome as a browser on Android.

Under the Google search box, there are options for "All", "Shopping" "Images" " Videos" "News" more etc.

This option is how the results are displayed, so only shows up after the search.

Bill

[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

Thanks Bill, I have just had another go and all is now clear. Computers and me have never been the best of friends.

Doug

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

The KEDU NVR unit seems a good cost / safety compromise between a simple on/off switch and a full direct on line or contactor set-up. It is better than the "KJD" type NVR's with the flip-over E-stop that just presses the stop button. This is because the KEDU E-Stop is a separate switch so can still cut power even if the NVR contacts stick shut. If not using fully qualified industrial safety parts having a second means of stopping is good insurance

Robert G8RPI.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

I have fitted one of those KEDU type NVR to my small precision drill earlier this year & it works fine; I am in no way elecktrikery minded but just followed the wiring instructions with fingers crossed. I tested by having the drill motor running then switching off the socket on the wall, heard the contactor delatch ?; waited a couple of seconds then switched the power back on, the drill did not start up, I had to push the start button to get it to run, all's well that ends well & with a sigh of relief I hadn't tripped the RCD in the garage.

George.

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