SuperGlue as a means of holding in lathe

[Chris TickTockParticipant @christicktock]

Hi Guys,

I am currently exploring how good superglue is for holding say a 100mm dia by 15mm aluminium disk on say a mild steel flat mandrel held in the chuck.

There must be times that you want to machine without drilling a hole in the centre and I know such people as Clickspring has a video showing him doing so.

but what are your experiences or recommendations?

Chris

[Chris TickTockParticipant @christicktock]

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

From your name, you appear to be a clock enthusiast! The go to adhesive for sticking items to say a face plate, has always been shellac, in clock making circles. It works very well indeed and you don't need the higher temperatures that super glue calls for, when removing the item.

Andrew.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Works well. The hard part is getting them apart! Although nail varnish remover (Acetone) breaks the bond, heat is more effective in my experience, ideally a bit above 100°C, pressure cooker maybe. Temperature and time required depends on the glue: they're not all the same. Some superglues break easily in boiling water, others take ages. May be worth trying a few types.

First hint, don't use too much glue on large diameters. There's an advert showing a car being lifted by what looks to be a 25mm diameter rod stuck to the roof by a single generous drop of superglue.

Second hint, glued joints are weaker when struck sideways rather than pulled vertically. Provided the job isn't too delicate, a sharp sideways tap with a hammer will often shift it.

Dave

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

…or indeed the shear force of a cutting tool!

Also depends on the relative diameters.  You won't have much joy with a 100mm disc on a 12 mm dia mandrel as the shear force at the periphery is magnified by nearly 10 at the edge of the bond.  And if the work gets hot the glue will weaken.  I've used the technique for things like enlarging holes in wheels which are smaller than the "chuck" they were glued to.  Also circumferential grooves have been recommended in the chuck surface to help the bonding, or maybe just as a centering aid.

Good luck!

Edited By John Haine on 14/07/2020 18:15:52

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

Take a look at 'clickspring' he turns lots of part's using super glue

H

[Chris TickTockParticipant @christicktock]

Thanks for all posts thus far.

I am minded after my research to experiment with loctite 480.

Reasons;

1. Is Shellac old school and is there now a better alternative?

2. Ease of seperation…we will see if this is the case.

Chris

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Chris TickTock on 14/07/2020 20:19:19:

[…]

1. Is Shellac old school and is there now a better alternative?

[…]

.

Shellac has properties [potentially useful to the clockmaker] which are not commonly found amongst ‘glues’

… I seriously recommend that you research the ‘old school’ approach before deciding whether to dismiss it.

MichaelG.

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

If it's any help, I was turning a 95mm dia by 4mm EN24 (quite tough) steel disc today, glued to a 50mm bar with 221 (low strength) Loctite. It did have a 5/16" bolt through it to hold it to the bar, but the Loctite was there for the torque.

The flatter the surfaces the better and if there is any possibility of a bolt or pressure from a tailstock centre it will help resist side forces.

A reasonably light tap with a hammer released the part from the bar.

[Chris TickTockParticipant @christicktock]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 14/07/2020 20:55:20:

Posted by Chris TickTock on 14/07/2020 20:19:19:

[…]

1. Is Shellac old school and is there now a better alternative?

[…]

.

Shellac has properties [potentially useful to the clockmaker] which are not commonly found amongst ‘glues’

… I seriously recommend that you research the ‘old school’ approach before deciding whether to dismiss it.

MichaelG.

 

Thanks Michael, as always there are different opinions which is well and good. Can anyone really take on board the full spectrum of all possibilities with an open logical mind….very unlikely. We take a view for better or worse. At some point I will try Shellac but will start wil loctite 480.

Chris

 

 

Edited By Chris TickTock on 14/07/2020 22:00:32

[VersabossParticipant @versaboss]

MichaelG, falling for a troll (again?)…

Regards,
Hans

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Versaboss on 14/07/2020 22:07:29:

MichaelG, falling for a troll (again?)…

Regards,
Hans

.

At least this time I’ve suggested that Chris does his own research

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Chris TickTock on 14/07/2020 21:59:59:

[…]

Can anyone really take on board the full spectrum of all possibilities with an open logical mind….very unlikely. We take a view for better or worse. […]

.

That’s a little too philosophical for me, Chris

I was simply recommending that you investigate the properties of Shellac before dismissing it as ‘old school’

But whatever I suggest … you will do as you see fit

Enjoy the journey

MichaelG.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Hans and anyone else, if you don't want to help Chris then don't post or take it to PM rather than make these comments on the thread.

Edited By JasonB on 15/07/2020 10:08:02

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

The road to hell is paved with good intention.

Regards Ian.

[Roger WoollettParticipant @rogerwoollett53105]

When I did something similar I used a faceplate and double sided sticky tape. When you are not too near the centre You might be able to use a live centre in the tailstock with some sort of (rubber?) buffer to apply pressure for added security. The only problem I had was unsticking the aluminium disc but a little perseverance worked.

[Chris TickTockParticipant @christicktock]

Thanks for all helpful posts

In my case a central hole will eventually have to be made so in this case I could easily use a central locking nut then re bush after.

The key is safety and release after if sticking. Experience is paramount but without it is is down to taking a view.

Chris

[Martin Hamilton 1Participant @martinhamilton1]

Chris i turned and bored an 83 mm diameter x 25 mm thick aluminium billet super glued to a face plate on my Sherline lathe. No problem at all, the hardest part was breaking the glued joint as i used a little to much glue. Its surprising how a small amount of Super glue spreads over a large area, just had to heat to a slightly higher temp to unbond the joint. Smaller items will break the joint with a light tap but the large area i had was practically impossible to break the joint without heating without causing damage to the parts with hammering.

[Martin Hamilton 1Participant @martinhamilton1]

Delete.

Edited By Martin Hamilton 1 on 15/07/2020 14:35:26

[Chris TickTockParticipant @christicktock]

Posted by Martin Hamilton 1 on 15/07/2020 14:15:59:

Chris i turned and bored an 83 mm diameter x 25 mm thick aluminium billet super glued to a face plate on my Sherline lathe. No problem at all, the hardest part was breaking the glued joint as i used a little to much glue. Its surprising how a small amount of Super glue spreads over a large area, just had to heat to a slightly higher temp to unbond the joint. Smaller items will break the joint with a light tap but the large area i had was practically impossible to break the joint without heating without causing damage to the parts with hammering.

Many thanks Martin,

I take it you also must have the riser set to increase the size of stock you can machine. I am still researching Loctite 480. My findings (some from posters on this forum) is that the bond it makes requires moisture so a thin ring maybe the answer. Cure time is 24 hours but I am investigating as set time is seconds. A heat gun maybe the way to release the 2 components rather than a torch.

Chris

[Oily RagParticipant @oilyrag]

I needed to turn a thin aluminium disc (25mm dia) 0.65mm thick – the job had to be with no pips and dead flat. I parted off a piece about 1.5mm thick then mounted it on a wood dowel and used 'Art Veneer' which is a hotmelt film on a release paper. Trade name is 'Gluefilm D815' it has a softening point of 90 deg C.I believe this is the modern equivalent to Scotch glue used by the woodworking trade for veneering. I applied it with a heat gun and removed the finished component by the same method.

IIRC the film came from a company called 'Art Veneers Ltd; Mildenhall, Suffolk' who sent me a sample.

[Martin Hamilton 1Participant @martinhamilton1]

Posted by Chris TickTock on 15/07/2020 16:52:13:

Posted by Martin Hamilton 1 on 15/07/2020 14:15:59:

Chris i turned and bored an 83 mm diameter x 25 mm thick aluminium billet super glued to a face plate on my Sherline lathe. No problem at all, the hardest part was breaking the glued joint as i used a little to much glue. Its surprising how a small amount of Super glue spreads over a large area, just had to heat to a slightly higher temp to unbond the joint. Smaller items will break the joint with a light tap but the large area i had was practically impossible to break the joint without heating without causing damage to the parts with hammering.

Many thanks Martin,

I take it you also must have the riser set to increase the size of stock you can machine. I am still researching Loctite 480. My findings (some from posters on this forum) is that the bond it makes requires moisture so a thin ring maybe the answer. Cure time is 24 hours but I am investigating as set time is seconds. A heat gun maybe the way to release the 2 components rather than a torch.

Chris

No riser used, billet just cleared the bed by a hair. Round billet had to be glued quite central otherwise it risked touching the bed.

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