Super Steel epoxy

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

Has any one tried THIS instead of JBWeld and is it any good

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Not this exact product though the original Plastic Padding Super Epoxy 20 min epoxy adhesive was an extremely tough adhesive – sadly no longer available for some reason.

I'm not certain of the characteristics of the product referred to but as a long time user of JB Weld I personally don't think there's a comparable product, strength and temperature wise for a comparable price

It has always worked so well for me I see no reason to try anything else as an alternative unless of course a stronger or more temperature resistant version became available though the JBW standard version gives a good result in that direction anyway

Best – Tug

[BizibilderParticipant @bizibilder]

"Plastic Padding" is now marketed under the "Teroson" brand – same stuff just a different name, still made by Henkel.

[ChrisLHParticipant @chrislh]

I watched a video some months ago on this subject. The guy did tests on various "epoxy putties" but it was US based so may apply to some brands not available here. Here is a summary but bear in mind that the test conditions probabaly would not satisfy stringent standards.

Table follows in second post.

[ChrisLHParticipant @chrislh]

Relative price Relative shear strength

KBS Numetal 22.95 1615

JB Weld 4.98 1264

Hercules 18.16 1247

Oatey 6.94 1016

PC7 12.70 954

Quicksteel 6.35 938.

[ChrisLHParticipant @chrislh]

Gorilla 6.99 852

POR-15 32.28 556

Pratley 8.95 435

Loctite 7.98 434

EP-400 11.99 347

A+B 18.13 271

Noted that Loctite, a reputable brans did badly and you don't necessarily get high quality for high prices

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Posted by Bizibilder on 18/11/2022 14:12:08:

"Plastic Padding" is now marketed under the "Teroson" brand – same stuff just a different name, still made by Henkel.

Not 'Plastic Padding' per se but Super Epoxy ordinary epoxy adhesive that used to be made by Plastic Padding but thanks for the tip.

ChrisH – So JBW is second in line Chris to the KBS Numetal on strength but what a price difference. I doubt if the advantage is 400% Any idea what the temperature resistance is on the Numetal.

Thanks for taking the time to list all these products BTW

I watched a similar if not the same video and made a positive comment on here JB Weld but it was met with derision by one due to his previous videos not impressing. What it showed to me, and others however, was it's strength over the other components tested in similar fashion and reinforced my belief in JBW's suitability for use in model engineering

Regards – Tug

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 18/11/2022 15:08:09

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Looks like only 4000psi tensile vs 5000psi for JBW

It is also a much thicker product think like (Milliput where you mix two sticks) so not much use for bonding two flat surfaces and only good to 150deg c

link

Edited By JasonB on 18/11/2022 15:31:22

[john halfpennyParticipant @johnhalfpenny52803]

So where would Araldite sit on that list?

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

I take it from all of the comments that no one has used it or even knows what it is like

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Posted by Dalboy on 18/11/2022 16:38:46:

I take it from all of the comments that no one has used it or even knows what it is like

No, indeed I haven't – it's probably a perfectly good product but not in the same league as JBW from a model engineering point of view – I certainly wouldn't use it for fabricating a cylinder head for instance but it's probably okay for cosmetic fillets etc. JBW can be a bit runny but that's it's only drawback as far as I have found.

Tug

 

PS Thanks for the link Jason – JBW it is then

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 18/11/2022 18:07:32

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

The list is meaningless as it only identifies manufacturers, no tproducts. Loctite make hundreds of different adhesives including a multitude of epoxies

Ther are many better metal filled epoxies than original JB Weld. Devcon are a notable actor in the market. Their products are used to repair real engines, pumps and the like. Of course as Tug said the price is not comparable and the pack sizes are not hobby friendly.

Robert G8RPI.

[martin haysomParticipant @martinhaysom48469]

Posted by john halfpenny on 18/11/2022 16:36:08:

So where would Araldite sit on that list?

which one ?

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

I must admit to a degree of scepticism about epoxy products as a substitute for metal. 5000 psi might sound impressive, until you realise that 20 tonnes per square inch is pretty ordinary for steel. I've used over 100 litres of epoxy glue to build a wooden boat, and it is great for that, but for metal I think I will be sticking with my TIG welder.

John

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Totally agree with Robert about the number of different adhesives and similar products under the loctite name. For a non adhesive professional person, sorting through all the "similar but different" specification sheets to find best of breed or close to best of breed for a particular job is the sort of thing that rapidly erodes your will to live. Was very glad I was getting paid for it on the time or two I had to do such. Yet that was merely research so I could be sure I was asking the technical help folk intelligent questions.

I buy Devcon and say hang the cost because professional market things reliably do what they say on the tin and can be trusted to have balanced properties. According to a loctite tech rep tensile strength alone is not a good selection parameter for most things as optimising too heavily for that reduces performance elsewhere. Its the balance that matters. Realistically no one is going to hang a couple of tons (ish) off a square inch of adhesive joint so the difference between 5,000 psi and 4,000 psi is generally moot. What is more important is that the joint is able to follow load fluctuations across it without producing stressing concentrations in the adhesive which, if excessive, will quickly break it. Pure adhesives are brittle.

Comparing adhesive joints to weld is unfair. Good adhesive design is all about passing the load through a decent area. Which is why end of joint loading concentrations and an adhesive of limited peel strength are a nightmare combination. The joint just unzips at well below its theoretical load.

Theoretically a perfect weld with matched filler need only be the cross section of the joined material to carry the same load. So the area is tiny in comparison to and adhesive joint. Real welds are larger but not that much larger.

Clive

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Well each to his own John, though being sceptical (even to a degree) is one thing, being dismissive without trying is another.

I think I've done enough with JBW to know that I don't need a TIG welder for the uses I have put it to in the field of model engineering. It's not the amount used but the application of it that counts. The comparison between a full size boat and a cylinder head for a Double Ten for instance is, I'm sure you would agree, quite considerable.

I'm a firm believer in not knocking something unless you've tried it – if you don't try you don't find out that's for sure but I'm well confident in it's strength for the applications I have used and advocated it for to date.

I can well imagine the heat required and potential for distortion, not to mention the clean up required had this lot been silver soldered – can you actually TIG weld cast iron BTW?

As always it's down to the individual to make their own minds up but I know where I stand where this product is concerned

Regards – Tug

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Like Tug been using JB for some years but have been trying Araldite metal for about 6 months and am quite impressed. Drills and taps well.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Bernard, is that Araldite metal or Araldite steel as I can't see a metal one. If the steel then they say it is only good for 100deg C so may not be so good for engines being run on steam

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

If you want a super storng epoxy get some Araldite 2013. It's not metal filled (but then how many of those listed above are?) but it's got more grip than a Scotsman. I have just glued a tyre onto an elecric pallet truck wheel after finding out the supplier has them on back-order and it's been pulling 1.5ton loads about all week.

I got recommended to it by Brian Caddy as the best stuff to fix way liner (Turcite, Rulon etc) onto gib strips and ways. I had tried ordinary araldite and it just peeled off like a sticker.

[Andy_GParticipant @andy_g]

For a cheap(ish) epoxy with decent temperature resistance, have a look at UHU Endest 300 – the datasheet gives alternative mixing ratios / cure schedules that can be used to tailor the properties to the application.

With a 100:50 (weight/weight) mixing ratio and a 100 or 180°C cure, it has good strength up to 120°C and reasonable strength to 140°C.

Datasheet:

https://media2.supermagnete.de/docs/uhu_plus_endfest_300_eng.pdf

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

I think its the metal one but then who cares not everyone is concerned with steam just the strength and look.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by ChrisLH on 18/11/2022 14:40:23:

I watched a video some months ago on this subject. The guy did tests on various "epoxy putties" but it was US based so may apply to some brands not available here……………………………………………..

Chris have you got a link as I think your video may have been for Putty not an adhesive like the JBWeld being discussed.

Although JBW do a putty where two sticks are mixed together the JBWeld generally used for model construction is much more liquid and comes in two tubes.

I would think it very hard to use a putty for bonding any close fitting surfaces together as you would have a job closing up the joint although it should be OK for things like adding fillets

Bernard, steam does not bother me either but as the question was how does another compare with JBWeld then I was just pointing out a difference in the product I could find on the net. I do sometimes use a bit of JBW on the IC engines though so heat and fuel resistance comes into play there

Edited By JasonB on 20/11/2022 07:28:05

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

You are correct there Bernard, not everyone is …….

As I recall I made my first silencer for an IC engine sometime in the early seventies. It was for an OS-40 glow motor fitted in my first model boat. The engine was not a water cooled version but the standard unsilenced R/C motor, the manifold made from brass with a brass collector silver soldered to it leading via silicone tubing to an expansion chamber in the rear of the boat. Well over-engineered in respect to the engine but the only materials available to me at that time. It was much to my surprise that the first run showed that the silver solder had melted with the heat, clearly evidenced by the way the solder had run.

What's this to do with JB Weld you may ask.

Well, a few years later and well before any use of JBW in an ME application I made another silencer from aluminium for a similar engine – an OS Max 35S. This was for use in a control line model. At an early competition the central bolt that held all three components of the chamber came loose in flight and the silencer left the aircraft – an immediate loss of all points due to the jettison rule. One of the other competitors came over to me after and said something like "JB Weld will cure that" I queried what it was and once told doubted that an epoxy would stand the heat involved. However, well before the use of any computer, I finally found a supplier and bought some.

Still with a high degree of scepticism the silencer was reassembled with JBW but still retaining it's central bolt. I was expecting to witness burnt residue around the joints but no, nothing even after many flights. I decided to remove the bolt to see what happens – nothing – it just carried on being a silencer the whole thing held together with nothing more than the JBW. This was my first realisation of just how strong this stuff was in high temp conditions. (Anyone who has used glow engines know just how hot they get).

Simplistic? Well maybe but the proof was in the pudding. I have made quite a few silencers since using nothing but JBW. Flown considerably I have had only one failure where the single 8BA cap head bolt holding the silencer itself to the manifold sheared.

On first use I grabbed the first thing at hand to mix it on, a piece of flat steel plate, the residue curing in a solid lump. Quite sometime later I looked for a similar piece of steel and thought I could quickly chisel the JBW off. How wrong that assumption proved to be as it was extremely hard and resistant. I gave up and looked for another piece of material,l the JB coated piece still lurking in the workshop somewhere as a good example.

It was this prior use and the discovery of just how hard it was that lead me to the conclusion that it would make for a good bonding agent to fabricate 'castings' – the Waller engine, much much later, finally being the first real use in this application.

As readers can no doubt surmise – I am a convinced advocate of the product based on a high degree of success with its attributes. Yes there are other products available but none, as far as I am aware, match them like for like at the reasonable cost that JBW is available for.

This product has been the subject of other threads before – a quick search of JB Weld will soon find them

Best -Tug

[ChrisLHParticipant @chrislh]

Jason,

I misguidedly thought that "epoxy putty" was how you would describe araldite, etc. in the US. Here's a link to the video I watched, you need training at an audio gym before watching as the vocal delivery is super fast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3r0UZ7txzs (I haven't yet fathomed how to paste an automatic link)

The JBWeld product tested was "SteelStik". Is this the grade used by Ramon, yourself and other advocates ?

Edited By JasonB on 20/11/2022 12:15:36

[Author]

Posts