Sunbeam B24 350cc 1939

[Anonymous]

This post has been removed at the author’s request.

[Robert ButlerParticipant @robertbutler92161]

CT if the estate is significant I would obtain the valuation in writing, even if zero and hand to the solicitor but keep it with the estate papers. HMRC are increasingly looking at valuations and "missing" estate property and are not noted for their stupidity. I have acted as an Executor on five occassions over the last 50 years and am reasonably up to speed with Protocol.

Robert Butler

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Edited By Robert Butler on 16/01/2023 18:05:21

[JAParticipant @ja]

Just a comment. Some have used the term "Barn Find".

This is not a barn find. It was much loved by C T's father in law. Barn finds are, or more likely were, clapped out vehicles that were run into the ground (just avoiding the hedge or ditch) and chucked in the back of a disused barn when they failed to start.

There are worse things. A basket case for one. A friend bought a T100 basket case that was more Bantam than Triumph. Locally a 250cc AJS did the rounds. It had been stripped down to the last nut and bolt.

JA

[garyParticipant @gary44937]

hopper, what parts would be zinc plated on a bike that age.

[Anonymous]

This post has been removed at the author’s request.

[Anonymous]

This post has been removed at the author’s request.

[SakuraParticipant @sakura]

Posted by gary on 16/01/2023 19:09:24:

hopper, what parts would be zinc plated on a bike that age.

None, cadmium or parkerised fixings and shiny parts chrome plated.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Or Nickel plate?

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Cad plating has been banned in most countries these days, except for specialist aviation work, at specialist aviation prices. (Not sure about the UK?) Because of toxicity issues, both in the plating process and to the end users. Tip: Don't hold small cad plated screws and nuts etc between your lips when assembling tricky fiddly little bits with multiple small fasteners. That is the No.1 way it is ingested in the home workshop.

Zinc plating is used by restorers as a substitute on all those small fasteners and bits that were originally cad. Does not look quite right to the rivet counters, but if you glass bead blast it after plating it looks pretty close.

And nickel plating would be more correct than chrome for the brightwork on a bike of this era.

 

Edited By Hopper on 16/01/2023 21:56:45

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by C T on 16/01/2023 19:18:30:

Thank you for all your feedback and . I am sure I would be capable of restoring the Sunbeam to a high standard, having restored a number of motorcycles over the years but not for a while.
The cost of the work is not the demotivating factor it's the time it will take.
Scrapping it is NOT an option either just an attention grabbing title.
I do like the idea of freezing the condition as the "barn find look" but roadworthy and safe.
I believe this route for me will be more difficult,trying to curb the urge to polish, paint, chrome to within an inch of its life.
Can anyone point to publications, website or general information about this route.

If you plan to keep it, do it the way you like it. If you want to spend the money on a full restoration, go ahead and enjoy it. Your best source of info would be the Sunbeam owners club and you local veteran and vintage bike club.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by JA on 16/01/2023 18:13:05:

Just a comment. Some have used the term "Barn Find".

This is not a barn find. It was much loved by C T's father in law. Barn finds are, or more likely were, clapped out vehicles that were run into the ground (just avoiding the hedge or ditch) and chucked in the back of a disused barn when they failed to start.

There are worse things. A basket case for one. A friend bought a T100 basket case that was more Bantam than Triumph. Locally a 250cc AJS did the rounds. It had been stripped down to the last nut and bolt.

JA

I don't think there are any rules for what condition old bikes had to be in before they were parked in the barn, or chicken coop, or woodshed or back shed as so many were. Some doubtless were ridden into the ground – probably most – but others were in good order and left when owners went off to war and never returned or got married and stopped riding or simply lost interest and moved on to other things, or got too old or got ill or bought a car and did not want to part with the old bike still.

The term basket case has interesting and unexpected origins. It originally referred to disabled veterans from World War 1, mostly multiple/quadruple amputees, who spent their days in a type of wheeled woven basket being moved around by nursing staff or family members.

Edited By Hopper on 16/01/2023 21:57:23

Edited By Hopper on 16/01/2023 21:59:03

[george baker 1Participant @georgebaker1]

Hi CT

if you have the inclination to re-commision the bike please do. It will cost more than you could sell it for, but you will have a bike with history.

An approach, if there are family problems is-

Agree a value that people are happy with, as it is now. Then document all the parts and services used and agree a nominal value of your time, before you start, (start by asking what a nail bar, hairdressers or garage charges per hour). When it's running get a valuation and share the profit (LOSS) among the heirs.

Your time, includes ringing around, going to autojumbles for parts, travel to take and collect parts from plater, dvla time, MoT for safety sake, trip to tyre fitters, time on line, etc.

Time = 350 hours? couple of hours midweek? a day at weekend? £20/hour? = £7K

Parts– At Least — Battery, tyres, Chain, Sprockets, Lamps, cables, Penetrating oil, Oil, Fuel, Carb rebuild, Club membership, parts book, MoT , Filter? or slinger?, = £500?

Parts — Possible– Seat re-covering, Wheel rebuild, Painting, Plating, Magneto rebuild, tank repair = Dont Ask.

Good luck

George

George

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

That sounds like a recipe for a major family fall out sometime in the future.

[SakuraParticipant @sakura]

The Sunbeam is a late 30s bike, manufactured under AMC ownership. Nickel plating, as a final finish, finished around 1930 therefore the shiny bits would be chrome plated over the nickel.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Sakura on 17/01/2023 08:31:07:

The Sunbeam is a late 30s bike, manufactured under AMC ownership. Nickel plating, as a final finish, finished around 1930 therefore the shiny bits would be chrome plated over the nickel.

Proper flash one then.

Not sure what it is like in the UK these days but the cost of chrome plating has become virtually unaffordable here. Most of the chrome platers closed down due to restrictive laws on waste disposal and WHS etc and the few left charge whatever they like, which is a lot. The days of chromed tanks are gone and it's cheaper to buy a whole new exhaust system from Armours etc than to get your old one rechromed. Same for headlights and mudguards etc.

A lot of guys are buying the kits and doing their own home plating of nickel and zinc instead. Not sure if you can do chrome or not. But it works well for all the small stuff.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Posted by C T on 16/01/2023 17:36:07:

Posted by Chris Evans 6 on 16/01/2023 17:03:28:

The BSA on my Avatar was very incomplete and in worse condition than the Sunbeam when I started to rebuild it.

Lots of happy hours in the workshop have a value to me, sure I would lose money if I sold it but that misses the point.Rebuild for mechanical reliability and safety that will keep its value up and not consume thousands on cosmetics. Do you know if the engine turns ?

Yes the Engine turns over fine.

Just don't run it without clearing the oilways, Mineral oil left that long changes to a sticky mess in small spaces that works better as a glue.

[Anonymous]

This post has been removed at the author’s request.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by C T on 17/01/2023 10:48:08:

…

George

Thak you for the heads up. Lots to think about.

No family issues only me, I will be the o ly issue over thinking everything.

Well, that's good. Assign it a scrap value of 50 Quid as far as the authorities are concerned and carry on. Plenty of time later to decide exactly what you want to do with it. Restoring Dad's old bike could be a very pleasant labour of love. Don't rush into anything until the dust settles from Dad's passing and then do your research and make your plans.

[Fowlers FuryParticipant @fowlersfury]

CT wrote " having restored a number of motorcycles over the years but not for a while……………..Can anyone point to publications, website or general information about this route. "

Likewise, I too have restored a few Brit bikes ~~ but not for a while. It is your request to be pointed to publications etc that I'll offer some – no doubt unhelpful – suggestions.

I still have, gathering dust behind me now, bound magazines from 1982 until about 5 years later. They include Classic Bike, Classic Mechanics, Classic Motorcycle. Within them there is a wealth of information on restoration.
(Note to self – really must get rid before the Grim Reaper appears).
There is an index for CB (Jan 83) and it suggests there's an article on the Sunbeam model 9 in the April/May 1981 edition. Unfortunately, that's a year before my collection began.
I did come across an advert for "Atlantic Motor Cycles" in Jun 86 of CB offering for sale a "Sunbeam , 1930 Mod G for £2,000 ~ what does that equate to in 2023?
In the Classic MotorCycle of May 1983, there is an informative article "A Glint of Sunbeams". I'm unsure of copyright issues but think if it's for your private study, I could copy it. PM me if wanted.

I would though recommend you have a look for such magazines of FleaBay and the like.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Fowlers Fury on 17/01/2023 12:39:49:

…
I did come across an advert for "Atlantic Motor Cycles" in Jun 86 of CB offering for sale a "Sunbeam , 1930 Mod G for £2,000 ~ what does that equate to in 2023?

As SOD posted above, there is one for sale today for a bit less than twice that much. A screaming deal. Interest in that era bikes has dwindled as those who remember them from their youth with lustful thoughts drop off the twig. Compare and contrast a 1970s Honda 4 or Kawasaki 900 worth 12,500 Quid and upwards as today's Boomers want to relive the youth they wished they had.

If you put 2000 Quid in the stockmarket in 1986, it would be worth 60,400 Quid today. And you don't have to lug shares around every time you move house and trip over them every time you want to get into your workshop.

Old motorbikes are a labour of love, not an investment.

 

Edited By Hopper on 17/01/2023 13:02:15

[JAParticipant @ja]

Re-chroming has always been expensive. In addition legislators have looked at banning it on environmental grounds for years. Do not think about home plating, the current required is very high and chromic acid is very nasty.

It came into use as a decorative finish in the very late 1920s. The few bright parts on modern cars and bikes are not chromed.

JA

[colin branniganParticipant @colinbrannigan54160]

As we are talking chrome anyone like to guess the price of triple plate chroming of these eight parts I had done last year.

Regards Colin

[colin branniganParticipant @colinbrannigan54160]

Last week I sent off the chrome work from the Douglas, it's a 1930 machine so it had chrome and nickel but I am going all chrome, I am not having the tank done it will be silver as chrome was an option, again anyone want a guess a price.

Talking cost, I do most things myself so I save a lot but I can spend from £2.5k to £4k depending on the machine.

Mag recon £400 to £500

Dynamo £250

Rims + spokes un plated £300, good chrome £450

Exhausts new, £200 to £400

Speedo £175

Seat/ Saddle £200

Tyres tubes £150 to £250

That's close to £2k and you not looked at the engine and box yet, are the stanchions rusty, or the girders bent, it's an endless money pit but when that engine fires up and the oil is pumping around and the dynamo is charging, no rattles or smoke it's a bloody wonderful feeling.

Riding a bike that's 70, 80 or even 90 years old with the sun shining it's just brilliant.

Kind regards Colin

[Fowlers FuryParticipant @fowlersfury]

True enough about chrome re-plating these days. For one of my rebuilds where surface rust had ruined the original chrome plating, I used a nickel plating kit. The process is safe enough altho' tedious & requiring a LOT of preparation. A preliminary coating of electroplated copper is advisable on mild steel. The final finish of course will not look as reflective as chromium but a polish with Solvol or the like and the appearance is very close. For chrome-plated Cu oil pipes that needed replacing, I made new pipes then silver coated them. Again, a simple, safe process used extensively by clock restorers.The silver (from silver nitrate soln) binds directly to the Cu surface and is resilient to oxidation if coated with a non-yellowing clear varnish..

A low-res image of the Panther but the covers on the rear shocks, the front brake actuating arm, tank filler cap and a few other smaller items had been Ni plated back in '84.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by colin brannigan on 17/01/2023 14:45:37:

As we are talking chrome anyone like to guess the price of triple plate chroming of these eight parts I had done last year.

Regards Colin

100 Quid?

[Author]

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