Sumitomo insert help

[MACParticipant @mac53652]

Hello all.

I'm trying to understand the codes on a couple of indexable lathe tools I have……both came with my lathe, along with some inserts (which I have now used).

The turning tool is coded: SCLCR1010-03

The boring bar is coded: BBPT-210R 803

I downloaded the Sumitomo catalogue, which is beautifully presented, but these codes do not follow that shown in the book. For example the second "B" in BBPT should relate to the clamp method, but there is no B in the catalogue diagram. Perhaps my toolholder codes have been superseeded? If so, does anyone know how I can translate it to the current code?

Help would greatly be appreciated. I'm buying some Iscar inserts for my face mill (which couldn't have been easier – find the holder in the catalogue and choose from a list of suitable inserts) from America and I'd like to add some inserts for these two holders to my order too.

I know there is a guy called Carter who sells Sumitomo inserts, but they're not the best deal out there.

Many thanks.

Mike.

Edited By MAC on 22/02/2012 22:40:08

[MACParticipant @mac53652]

[CabengParticipant @cabeng]

I have both those Sumitomo tools, albeit with slightly different designations – SCLCR1010-03S & BBPT 210R 303. They've given many years of satisfactory service, and consumed a lot of tips in their time!

I think the BBPT designation has indeed been superseded (it may have been a Sumitomo designation), their recent (2008) paper catalogue uses the ISO designation, which would be S10K-STUP R. Not exactly the same, the only difference is in the tool ength – the BBPT is 150mm long, the S10K is 125mm long.

The catalogues lists exactly the same tip for the S10K as I've used for many years in the BBPT- TPGT110302LW in Sumitomo T1200 grade, and have never felt any need to try anything else. I can recommend these tips wholeheartedly, superb finish and not prone to chatterring.

For the SCLCR1010 – that looks longer than the one I have, in comparison to the length of the boring bar, maybe that's down to the 03 code as opposed to 03S on mine. But the tip size looks the same in proportion to the size of the shank, in which case it could be an 8mm tip. I've always used Sumitomo CCGT080202N-SC, T1200A grade, and again wouldn't use anything else.

But check the size of the insert by measuring the length of one edge. The 8mm tip was not an ISO preferred size, a special for Japan I think, but that was what was being sold when I bought my tooling from the chap who first started selling them to model engineers – Ian somebody? Bought them at Stoneleigh umpty-one and a bit years ago.

The 8mm tips are still available, I bought some a few weeks ago, but they have to be ordered from Japan. The same cannot be said for the toolholder for the 8mm tips, Sumitomo don't make them anymore. As I found out recently when my toolholder went past it use by date and had to be replaced.

If you have the 6 or 9mm tip (actual sizes 6.4 and 9.7mm) , the inserts you require would be CCGT0602N-SC T1200A or CCGT0902N-SC T1200A respectively.

T1200A is an uncoated cermet grade, the N-SC part of the code refers to the design of the cutting edge and chipbreaker. For the TPGT boring bar inserts, the W designation is the part of the code that specifies the edge and chipbreaker shape.

I obtain my inserts and tooling from:

HB Cutting Tools (Ormskirk) Ltd.

Unit 2, Langley Court

Higgins Lane Estate

Burscough

Lancs

L40 8JR

Tel: 01704 897722

I don't know how they would compare with your Mr. Carter, I paid £4.70 +VAT each, buying a box of 10 inserts. The bad news is that they'll only sell them a box at a time – but who wants to buy one on it's own anyway? Break it, and your stuck until the next one drops through the letter box – better to have a box of 10 on the shelf, then you can get right on with the job, and order another box when you're down to your last two inserts!

[MACParticipant @mac53652]

Thank you so much for detailed reply – very helpful.

The tips for the SCLCR are indeed 8mm. I have two left, but as you say – you don't want to be in a postion with no new ones in the cupboard.

Thanks again.

Mike.

[CabengParticipant @cabeng]

Well MAC, it might be worth thinking about buying a new toolholder as well! I suggest that for three reasons:

1) If you happen to buy a box of 8mm tips just before the holder wears out (and they do, unfortunately), you could be left with a load of expensive bits of carbide that you won't be able to use because you won't be able to replace the toolholder.

2) There's another holder available for the CCGT tips, one that uses the other two corners, the ones with the obtuse angles, so you get twice the number of cutting edges for the same cost! It's designation is SCRCR for the right hand cutting version. Unfortunately, the toolholder is no longer available for 8mm tips.

3) Nobody other than Sumitomo makes 8mm tips, so there wouldn't be any opportunity to use alternatives, should the urge or need come upon you. 6mm & 9mm are standard sizes from many (if not all) manufacturers.

HB Cutting Tools can supply German manufactured holders at about half the price of the Sumitomo items – I just changed to 6mm tips and bought 4 of these holders (Right hand, left hand, right hand obtuse and neutral) from them, £28 each plus VAT, although I think the obtuse one was a bit more pricey. I've only just got them, so it will be several years (I hope!) before I know how long they'll last, but HB assured me that these were items that they sold into industry, and that I wouldn't notice any difference.

Maybe of interest – I've used the Sumitomos for many years on a Myford S7B PCF machine with VFD drive – it loves 'em, and shifts metal at an amazing rate. 2300 rpm on 1" FCMS is fine, the lathe hasn't been on the slow speed range since I got them. But watch out for the chips, they go ballistic!

Oh, and if anyone tells you that they don't like interrupted cuts…. don't believe them. The trick to making the tips survive interupted cuts is to cut DEEPER, e.g. 1.25" FCMS hex bar down to round in one cut.

[MACParticipant @mac53652]

Hi Cabeng,

All great information thanks – given what you say, I'm leaning towards selling the holders I have and buying alternates.

Regards,

Mike.

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