Subscriptions – Going Forward

[SillyOldDuffer]

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

On Diogenes Said:

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It is going to be a case of ‘use it or lose it’ – I’d guess that probably includes the forum too, if it all sinks?

Of course.  If the magazine fails to make money, the forum is of no value to Mortons.  It’s a honeypot, intended to lure newcomers into the hobby in hope they will buy the magazines.    Probably makes a few quid from advertising, but I doubt that pays all the bills.

We provide the honey.  In return Model Engineers get a club on the internet, where we can meet.

…

 

Only Mortons know whether or not the forum pays.  If they decide it doesn’t, we’re done.   Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that!

We could organise an alternative.   The SMEE forum could be expanded, but considerable organisation and volunteer effort would be needed.  Or maybe SMEE could be persuaded to fund this one.

Dave

How much does it actually cast to host a forum I wonder….

Mortons is a large and successfull company and I would have thought that even if the forum runs at a loss it is still promoting Mortons itself and other magazine titles.

I am sure Mortons could do better in ‘selling’ subscriptions to forum users. Yes there are a couple of ‘subscribe’ adverts but once one scrolls down to read posts they disappear off the top of the screen, why dont they just stay fixed whilst the posts scroll?

Personally I would not mind more adverts if it helped ensure the existence of the forum (as crappy as its software is).

I subscribe to a few other forums most of which seem to be hosted by individuals with little or no adverts, I wonder how they can fund their forums, as the impression we get is that this one is a big drain on Mortons finances (not that we know its even in the back their minds to cease it).

Ian P

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Well I do know having looked into it a while back.

Of the other Model type forums they keep the costs down by either limiting the size/number of images that can be posted or simply don’t have a facility to post images , the user has to host them elsewhere. Others have more adverts and/or ask for donations.

Of the three that I can think of and visit traffic is a lot less than here so again that keeps costs down as price is dependant on activity and storage.

All have volantry moderators which again keeps admin costs down.

[Stuart Smith 5]

On Stuart Smith 5 Said:

Neil

Why did anyone at Morton’s think that someone who subscribes to ME and MEW would be happy to receive ‘The Railway Magazine’ instead.

When I first saw Jason’s post, I assumed that it was a typo. Apparently not.

Surely the obvious and most reasonable solution is for Morton’s to refund any outstanding credit back to the subscribers bank account.

This is what happened when EIM ceased. (Though this was a different publisher). They didn’t try to push a different magazine onto subscribers.

Hopefully Morton’s will have a rethink and do the correct thing.

Stuart

 

 

 

It’s their title nearest in content to ME, and not a totally unreasonable choice.

As others have found, requesting a refund instead is not difficult.

 

[JasonB]

On JasonB Said:

Nigel, What the statement says is those with a sub to both will have the ME sub transferred to railways and teh MEW one will continue as the new titlethose with a sub to just ME will have the funds transferred to the new mag.

It says those with just an ME sub will have the remaining balance transferred to the new title.

However this does seem at odds with what Neil said. I can’t see why a single sub is being extended but the duel can’t. A £62 sub will run longer than a £50 so dates and amounts will change.

DD subscribers can’t be put onto an extension because of the way payments are taken. Extending would take their sub past their next payment. For people who make a one-off payment extending is the simplest option.

The reason is that if you extend a DD sub, it would run past the automatic renewal date, creating problems as you would have to miss the renewal and then make a new renewal at the date when the extended sub runs out, I don’t think this changing of dates is allowed under DD rules. Anyway the reason is something like that – basically it requires changes that DD rules don’t allow (or make reasonably straightforward). It is possible to issue a refund and change the DD amount to reflect that it’s only for one magazine.

As I understand it, with other renewal types, the frequency of payments isn’t set when you take it out.

[Ian P]

On Ian P Said:

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

On Diogenes Said:

…

It is going to be a case of ‘use it or lose it’ – I’d guess that probably includes the forum too, if it all sinks?

Of course.  If the magazine fails to make money, the forum is of no value to Mortons.  It’s a honeypot, intended to lure newcomers into the hobby in hope they will buy the magazines.    Probably makes a few quid from advertising, but I doubt that pays all the bills.

We provide the honey.  In return Model Engineers get a club on the internet, where we can meet.

…

 

Only Mortons know whether or not the forum pays.  If they decide it doesn’t, we’re done.   Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that!

We could organise an alternative.   The SMEE forum could be expanded, but considerable organisation and volunteer effort would be needed.  Or maybe SMEE could be persuaded to fund this one.

Dave

How much does it actually cast to host a forum I wonder….

Mortons is a large and successfull company and I would have thought that even if the forum runs at a loss it is still promoting Mortons itself and other magazine titles.

I am sure Mortons could do better in ‘selling’ subscriptions to forum users. Yes there are a couple of ‘subscribe’ adverts but once one scrolls down to read posts they disappear off the top of the screen, why dont they just stay fixed whilst the posts scroll?

Personally I would not mind more adverts if it helped ensure the existence of the forum (as crappy as its software is).

I subscribe to a few other forums most of which seem to be hosted by individuals with little or no adverts, I wonder how they can fund their forums, as the impression we get is that this one is a big drain on Mortons finances (not that we know its even in the back their minds to cease it).

Ian P

The function of the forum is to promote the magazines. Advertising helps offset costs but doesn’t cover them.

I know they would like to advertise subscriptions through the forum more, but they fear that pushing too hard will annoy forum users.

One option (used on another forum I visit) would be for subscribers to see less advertising.

[Neil Wyatt]

On Neil Wyatt Said:

On Ian P Said:

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

On Diogenes Said:

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I know they would like to advertise subscriptions through the forum more, but they fear that pushing too hard will annoy forum users.

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Takes very little to annoy us!

Which suggests an exciting new column in ME&W.  Replace ‘Smoke Rings’ with ‘Blowing Off!’  In it members can indulge their favourite rant…

🙂

Dave

[simondavies3Participant @simondavies3]

Which suggests an exciting new column in ME&W.  Replace ‘Smoke Rings’ with ‘Blowing Off!’  In it members can indulge their favourite rant…

🙂

Dave

Dave, there wouldn’t be enough space in the magazine…..

🙂

 

[Neil LickfoldParticipant @neillickfold44316]

I would like a subscription, that allows me to download the Model engineer magazine or the model engineers workshop magazine, as a complete single pdf file, so that I can read it some point in time and not have to be on line to view it. I don’t want a situation where I have to download and save every page I may want to keep or print for a reference.

To prevent sharing, it could be water marked with  the subscribers name or account number in a discrete placing, before the page number for instance.

Neil

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Nick that has been possible for at least 18months, possibly longer . You can select particular pages or all and it will spit out a pdf. Just need the digital subscription.

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

On the 4th January I got an email offering a one year subscription to ME.

Today I got an email offer to renew my MEW subs at a special discount (only five months left)

What is going on?

 

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

I think that is a question that many of us would like answered V8 Eng. Neil may try to defend Mortons actions but I’m no longer convinced and your comment adds weight to my thought. Noel.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Guess the critics have no experience of planning!  Be more sympathetic if they had. Ironically, thinking plans are easy is often first mistake.  The devil is in the detail!

Train crash not conspiracy.  Neil’s explanation is reasonable. Launching prematurely almost always goes wrong…

Dave

[SillyOldDuffer]

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

Guess the critics have no experience of planning!  Be more sympathetic if they had. Ironically, thinking plans are easy is often first mistake.  The devil is in the detail!

 

Train crash not conspiracy.  Neil’s explanation is reasonable. Launching prematurely almost always goes wrong…

 

Dave

I accept Neil’s explanation for the now slightly chaotic situation regarding the introduction of the new single mag (which I am looking forward to), but I’m still baffled why Mortons show so little regard for the forum members and even less regard for the forum software

Ian P

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

So, has the person that leaked the change prematurely been found and defenestrated (other punishments are available)?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

It was easy enough to see who it was.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

It wasn’t me !

I have kept quiet though I was aware of big changes coming as far back as September, and one option being the reversion to one title. That the cat got out of the bag early is fine but behind the scenes Mortons knew far more about what was intended a while back so the current situation is hard to excuse !

None of this is Neils fault, he has just been left to try and deal with it.

Why have Mortons not come to the forum to explain ?   Noel.

[Ian P]

On Ian P Said:

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

…

 

Train crash not conspiracy.  Neil’s explanation is reasonable. Launching prematurely almost always goes wrong…

 

Dave

… but I’m still baffled why Mortons show so little regard for the forum members and even less regard for the forum software

Ian P

Collateral damage!

When Jason and I eventually got to test the seriously delayed new forum we found lots of bugs and a serious performance problem.   Really bad.

The reason it was in a mess emerged slowly and incompletely, possibly because Mortons or those responsible didn’t want dirty washing exposed in public.  Ought to explain that I’m not party to Mortons’ inner working, and although he’s closer for admin reasons, neither is Jason.   And although Neil is an employee, he’s not either!  What I’m typing is informed guesswork.

Turned out Mortons’ in-house IT team is tiny, 3 people managing 30 websites!  So the new forum was outsourced. One outsider was paid to translate the best features of the old forum into WordPress, whilst a second was paid to convert the data.  Reading between the lines, the firm tasked with converting to WordPress did not do a good job, probably because it was much harder than expected. This type of failure is a financial and legal nightmare – going to law is hugely expensive with no guarantee it will end well.  Appears the contract was terminated leaving the in-house team holding the baby.

The in-house team had very little time to fix it because the firm engaged to transfer the data had a contracted end-date.  Data transfer couldn’t start until the forum software was more-or-less correct and it wasn’t. The pressure to roll warts and all was enormous.

By this time the project was also well over budget.  Took an extraordinarily long time for Mortons’ management to intervene.  Don’t know why.  When projects exceed time and cost, management are supposed to manage! They’re supposed to identify the issues and, if possible, fix them pronto.  Management hate this because it usually means finding more money and a good deal of muck raking.   The blame game starts!  Politics are likely to intrude, resulting in no help.  Instead:  ‘do the best you can with the time and money already allocated’.  The performance problem and show-stoppers got priority, everything else wrong to be mended on an opportunity basic.

So the forum basically works, but not well.  Lots of annoying glitches and many irritated members have gone.  And not only members are suffering!  Mortons’ goal was to appeal to smart phone toting youth by deploying well supported modern software that could be extended without costing a fortune.  Oh dear!

Unfortunately, fixing the forum is another major project, and, having had their fingers burned, Mortons’ are unlikely to throw money at it.  It’s a moderate mess and there is no organised remedial programme.

By the way, there is no point whatever in complaining about the forum on the forum .   Mortons don’t read it.  The only way to get problems fixed is to ‘Report Bug’.

The magazine merger may be in trouble for similar under-managed reasons.   In the board room there’s no problem setting a list of naive target dates that are unachievable in the real-world.  For example, subscriptions paid by direct debit are constrained by strict banking rules, which have to be followed.   In the same way, someone has to tell the advertising department what the new rules are, and applying them takes time.  Likely these daft subscription offers were put in the pipeline months ago and no-one knows how to stop them.   Junior staff are obliged to obey the last order, so don’t expect them to fix it.

The merger plan coming off the rails isn’t intended to annoy customers.  It’s an accidental consequence.   Nonetheless, if I were on Mortons board I would be asking some very awkward questions about the firms project management competences.

Oh, and please don’t beat Neil and Diane to a pulp if the first issue of ME&W is a disappointment!  Bear in mind they’re working in a sh1t storm, not of their making.  It’s annoying, not the end of the world.

Dave

 

[V8Eng]

On V8Eng Said:

On the 4th January I got an email offering a one year subscription to ME.

Today I got an email offer to renew my MEW subs at a special discount (only five months left)

What is going on?

 

Thanks for the reply Jason. Will look at re subscribing again with the digital version.

Neil

[Neil Lickfold]

On Neil Lickfold Said:

On V8Eng Said:

On the 4th January I got an email offering a one year subscription to ME.

Today I got an email offer to renew my MEW subs at a special discount (only five months left)

What is going on?

 

Thanks for the reply Jason. Will look at re subscribing again with the digital version.

Neil

Now I’m totally confused as to the relevance of Neil Lickfold quoting my question particularly as I cannot see that Jason replied to it anyway.

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Now I’m totally confused as to the relevance of Neil Lickfold quoting my question particularly as I cannot see that Jason replied to it anyway.

 

Easily done by clicking “quote” in the grey bar below the post you want to quote rather than above

[Neil Lickfold]

On Neil Lickfold Said:

I would like a subscription, that allows me to download the Model engineer magazine or the model engineers workshop magazine, as a complete single pdf file, so that I can read it some point in time and not have to be on line to view it. I don’t want a situation where I have to download and save every page I may want to keep or print for a reference.

To prevent sharing, it could be water marked with  the subscribers name or account number in a discrete placing, before the page number for instance.

Neil

Take out a Digital Subscription, as well as on the online ‘readers’, you can then download a page, article or full magazine as a PDF from the online archive. About 23 years of ME and the whole run of MEW.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Some definitely GOOD NEWS for anyone with or interested in a Digital Subscription.

Following the re-unification of ME and MEW, the online archives of BOTH titles will be available to digital subscribers to the new Model Engineer and Workshop.

It’s not yet clear if there will be a new third archive or if one or the other digital archives will be extended with the new title, but all existing issues will remain available.

Neil

 

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Now, that is good news, Neil!  I would be willing to bet that it will pull in some new subscribers if they can get to hear about it.  Downside, for me, is I foresee a lot of would-be workshop time being expended on reading old issues of ME.

John

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

That’s totally what I expected to happen. It’s a complete no brainer to not do it and a massive incentive to subscribe to the new magazine. Well done.

[Neil Wyatt]

On Neil Wyatt Said:

Some definitely GOOD NEWS for anyone with or interested in a Digital Subscription.

Following the re-unification of ME and MEW, the online archives of BOTH titles will be available to digital subscribers to the new Model Engineer and Workshop.

It’s not yet clear if there will be a new third archive or if one or the other digital archives will be extended with the new title, but all existing issues will remain available.

Neil

 

Many thanks for clarifying that, Neil

… I will be interested to see the ‘delta cost’ of upgrading my existing quarterly Direct Debit  payment for the Print-only version of MEW.

MichaelG.

[Author]

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