Stuart ‘Victoria’ : a beginners tale..

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

"lead and dead centres" above should be "lead on dead centres"

[GaryMParticipant @garym]

Hi Allan,

You might find this video from Keith Appleton useful. Even though it is for a Stuart 5A vertical engine, the basic ideas can probably be applied to a horizontal engine like yours. Other more experienced members will know.

**LINK**

Also, you might be able to try your engine with a car foot pump if you've got one. My first engine (a little oscillator) runs a treat on a foot pump. Obviously the Victoria is a larger capacity cylinder but it might be worth a try if you haven't got round to buying a compressor.

Gary

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Thanks Julian and Gary.

Gary the video is really very good and there seems to be a whole lot of similar others on the same page – ta very much!. The car foot pump sounds well worth trying as well, I have a fairly new one, the 'two barrel type' – did you connect via the existing cable some way or did you remove it and make an adaptor to screw onto the frame / barrel?

I have set the timing, at least roughly for now until I can connect it up and try it. Waiting on the pipe, etc to arrive…

Thought I would wait and see how that goes before ordering the Stuart No. 1.

Cheers.

Allan.

 

Edited By Allan. on 03/03/2014 08:20:55

[GaryMParticipant @garym]

Hi Allan,

By 'cable' I assume you mean the hose attached to the pump. I used a length of flexible clear plastic tubing from B+Q, about 6mm O/D. I made a little adaptor to attach to the engine, threaded one end and with a short taper on the other to go in the tubing. At the pump end I just turned a small piece of steel (anything will do) to fit the tubing on one side and at the other end the same size as a car tyre valve so the clamp on the end of the hose would fit it. This was for the oscillator in my avatar (picture next to my name). As you might have read in the 'what did you do today' thread the S50 is not quite ready yet.

I'll take some pics later today.

Video of the little oscillator running from foot pump is here **LINK**

Ignore the mounting board, that was just to keep it still.

Gary

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Thanks for that Gary, sorry I had thought to change the word 'cable' but didn't get the chance.. It makes sense to try the car pump I think so I'll have a go, and to hear how you have done it is very helpful..

Nice video and I look forward to seeing the S50 photo's.

Cheers

Allan.

[GaryMParticipant @garym]

Here are the adapters I made. Both tapers are sized to fit tubing, brass one is threaded to fit steam inlet and steel one is same size as a tyre valve. Rough and ready, just to do the job.

Gary

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Cheers Gary.

Had a length of 5/32 brass pipe arrive yesterday to fit the 1/4 x 32 tpi unions that screw into the cylinder. As I have some aquarium airline I'm going to give that a try first, I think it may fit directly onto the 5/32 pipe but not tried it yet. Still waiting for the unions to arrive from Stuart also a little pipe bender and some bending springs from elsewhere. I've noticed that this 1/4 x 32 tpi size union is not always stocked by some suppliers and may be particular / or at least mainly used by Stuart Models. The foot pump adaptor I will do as you have – the car valve diameter I think is 8mm from looking on the internet but easy to get from the car of course.. Hoping the unions may arrive today..

I've recently read somewhere, I've forgotten where though, there may be a corrosion issue if you use a steam boiler especially if only infrequently, I wonder if anyone can confirm if this is true or does a displacement lubricator cure this or help much. My intention would be to get a boiler after completing the next project unless this is a real problem. It would help to know as if true I will just go ahead and buy a decent air compressor now – real shame though if thats the case, surely not I hope?

In order to get the engine running nice and smoothly I can see that either a compressor or a boiler is needed – but having it work off a foot pump as well would be very handy… Preference though for 'proper' use is a little boiler.

Cheers and thanks again Gary.

Allan.

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

The recommended boiler size from the Stuart catalogues is the Stuart 504, but this assumes the engine is driving a load. Stuart told me the 501 model is perfectly adequate for running the engine "off-load". However, they go for big money on eBay. If you do decide to go for a boiler, then I think you will need to install drain cocks to get water out of the cylinder.

Easiest is a little compressor, as the engine will run with very little air (provided there are no leaks!). With mine, I put a little oil into the cylinder to lubricate it before running on air, but for any long periods of running you need to make the air "oily". At one of the shows I bought a little adapter for a couple of quid that connects into the oil line and adds a bit (not a lot) of oil to the air to make sure the engine doesn't run dry. I think they are normally used for air powered drills and nibblers.

Steve

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Steve that's really useful, thanks. Is it a case when using drain cocks to simply leave them open to ventilate and allow the moisture to get out when not in use? I see that Stuart recommend for them to be installed on the Stuart No1. Engine.

Cheers.

Allan.

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

My understanding (my boiler is a work in progress!), is that the drain taps are opened before starting the engine as the steam hitting the cold cylinder will condense (+ any condensed steam from previous runs). As the steam is turned on it will warm up the cylinder and blow out any water, then the taps can be closed. This avoids hydraulic locking.

Hopefully one of the real steam guys will validate!

Steve

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

hi steve,

absolutely correct!

i would have thought that a small compressor used for spray painting would be quite sufficient for Allan's engine. after all it ought to rotate nice and slowly!

Allan, you are quite correct re 1/4" x 32 tpi being a Stuart oddity. it is a throw back to the very early days. 1/4" x 40 tpi being standard since the mid 1930s especially on miniature loco stuff.

cheers,

julian

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

But if you are making the No1 next then you want sufficient air supply for that and the boiler will also need to have sufficient capacity so worth bearing that in mind at this time to save having to upgrade when a small one is found lacking.

Aldi leaflet picked up yesterday has one at reasonable cost

[GaryMParticipant @garym]

Hi Allan,

I hope I'm not telling you something you know, but when you see full size steam locos pulling away with clouds of steam coming from the front of the engine at low level, that is because the driver has the drain cocks open to clear any water out and also to warm up the cylinders. Sorry if I'm stating the obvious.

Here **LINK** you can see the steam coming alternately from each end of the cylinder.

Gary

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Thanks really great posts again – I'm going to reply fully bit later on.

For some reason I can't seem to purchase the Air Compressor that Jason suggested online from Aldi, maybe they don't have the facility and its collection only, we live a bit out of the way here – so I thought to buy this one from amazon **LINK**

Going to ask a favour and hope someone can have a quick look and say if the specs look ok or if its not a good make etc, it looks comparable to the Aldi one to me. I'll order then…

Thanks.

Allan.

Edited By Allan. on 08/03/2014 10:13:19

Edited By Allan. on 08/03/2014 10:17:41

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Looks OK

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Great thanks Jason…

Cheers.

Allan.

[GaryMParticipant @garym]

I hope you realise how noisy they are Allan. I got this one from Axminster because it was quieter than the more common 24litre ones and it's still very loud. Might not produce enough air for the bigger engines though. What you really want is someone who is getting rid of an old fridge.

Gary

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Hi Gary

Must say that looks a lot more convenient size to use, thanks for the link. The Stuart no. 1 I think will take a lot longer to complete than Victoria so I'm not too worried about that at the moment – although Stuart says the 'Working Pressure' is the same for both (and the S50 all @ 60psi), but then as has been said they will likely run at a much lower pressure for 'display' – as Jason said though not for as long with the smaller air tank although its likely won't want to run it for long periods anyway…. less noise is better of course and may result in using more often – heck how to decide…

Thanks again.

Cheers

Allan

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

The main trouble is that although the engines will run on reasonably low pressure, they require quite a large volume of it. I'v just acquired a small compressor, ex medical, It operates at 35 psi, and runs my wobblers, must take it and try it on the S9, I have my doubts.

Watch it with air if you have cast iron, you may have condensation in the cylinder, and not have the heat of steam to dry things out when you close down. Ian S C

[paul raynerParticipant @paulrayner36054]

Allian

As Gary M says they are very noisy, I have a wolf air apache 50 i bought a number of years ago to pressurise central heating systems before filling with water and believe me its very noisy. but i can say its very reliable never had a problem with it in all the years I've had it. I do keep it in the garage though when I'm using it at home with a quick release pipe clipped to the wall and into the workshop. If I were you if you can stretch to it and have room i would go a bit bigger as they are all sorts of air tools you can purchase at a later date that gobble up the cfm s

regards

paul

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Thanks everyone, learnt a lot again from these replies all very interesting. I find the more I learn and understand the more interesting it all is – had wondered in the past why sometimes there is a lot of steam when a loco pulls away and sometimes not so, maybe I can understand a bit better now….. Was at the Llangollen Railway over Christmas where you can stand right next to the Loco's pulling off, incredible, amazing amounts of steam…

Decided to order this compressor in the end after lots of indecision, with some airline as there seems not to be any included – thought may as well have the optional airline and bits for the extra £20  Will make a connector to connect when I see whats needed…

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mohegan-Litre-7-4CFM-116psi-Compressor/dp/B009A9LOUM

Suspect it may be a bit less 'wife friendly' than Gary's suggestion though..

Have a good weekend everyone..

Allan.

Edited By Allan. on 08/03/2014 16:29:20

Edited By Allan. on 08/03/2014 16:32:28

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

For discussion on a suitable compressor construction see this thread

I have moved a few post there to save hijacking Allans thread.

J

Edited By JasonB on 09/03/2014 19:22:51

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Just a little update to say the compressor has arrived today, so hope to be able to post a little video of the engine running soon to finish this thread off.. Then plan to order a Stuart no. 1 for a next project…

Need to make a little adaptor now to connect the airline – can I just quickly confirm than when cutting male threads you start cutting with the die at the quoted OD on the thread data charts, tapping sizes are obvious but just a bit unsure of the use of the quoted 'effective and major diameters' when considering diameters for starting male threads. After cutting male threads the diameter finishes up smaller than the original OD, is this correct… thanks. Hope that makes sense..

The required diameters for all the threads on the Victoria were given on the drawing so am a little unsure of what is the correct approach outside of that for male threads.. I guess it's just obvious common sense but for the life of me I can't find any confirmation on the net…

Very sad to hear of the death of Bob Crow.

Regards.

Allan.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Hi Allan

Same size as the one some low life nicked from my garage last week, including the nozzle, air line, blow gun, regulator, plus a few other tools ..& my first oscillating engine model .. make sure you fasten it down securely to the floor & lock all accessories away..

George

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Sorry to hear that George, I know how I would feel if it happened to me – I'm not allowed in this country anymore to voice my opinions of course… We have a 6 stone Alsation puppy who would have something to say if anyone tried to do it to us though. The Oscillating Engine will be irreplaceable – if it were me I would at least get a decent photo blown up, framed and hung on a wall somewhere… Lets hope whoever took it doesn't hurt themselves using it or you could be in big trouble.

Compared with others I have seen on here I made a pretty poor job of my little oscillating engine but I would hate to loose it, I can remember fondly lessons learned every time I look at it…Cheers and thanks for the advice.

Allan.

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