Stuart ‘Victoria’ : a beginners tale..

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Just a little update of the Con Rod, not much progress and I'm waiting on a 3/8" Slot Mill to arrive to carry on – all my cutters are metric and so didn't have anything to do the Slot in the fork end….

Setting up to Mill the 'little end' of the Con Rod.

The Con Rod so far – I thought that the setup above would result in the Rod going back square each time it was turned over, with a stop set on the Mill travel and using a square – but the shoulder didn't end up exactly the same on each end. You can see its cut over the marked line on one shoulder in the next photo. So I'm thinking to go with the setup below that to do the Big End and see if the accuracy is any better as its rotated from one side to the next…

As the shoulders are going to be turned / filed away its not critical I hope and perhaps a good opportunity and interesting to experiment / practice…

The setup ready to do the big end. (Nothing tightened yet so the table is not left under torque while waiting on the Slot Mill..)

At least my new Profiling Tool to use for the turning has turned up…

Regards

Allan.

ps its the way of things now I've done this, I think the the slot mill's just arriving…

I'm thinking when finished to save this little thread as a pdf and print into a little booklet to keep with the engine – as its a great record of the stages involved and should be interesting to look back on, and I guess it will get passed on down with it in due course…

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

Allan When I did the fork my con rod I drilled a cross hole then hack sawed the middle out and cleaned up with a file

I certainly wouldn't try to mill the slot in the fork with a 3/8 slot drill not if you wish to make it 3/8 wide Either two cuts with a slitting saw or use use a smaller slot drill and make two passes

Roy

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Hi Roy

Thanks, I'm glad I did the post now – sounds like I nearly messed up..

I'm sure its a daft question but when you say "use a smaller drill and make two passes" do you mean a pass down each side of the two edges of the slot or one pass down the middle followed by another with the 3/8 mill – i guess you mean the former? Also I'm assuming the "cross hole" is the phrase used for a hole that has the same diameter as the intended width of the slot and is put in as the end of the slot? Sorry to sound so completely clueless about this – when slot cutting if its usual to not be using the same width cutter as the intended slot it is obviously important to know and something I didn't, but then I've never tried to cut a slot before – maybe its difficult to generalise though…

Thanks again.

Allan.

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

Allan One pass down each side I would be wary of a slot drill to cut dead to size Others may disagree

I would cut down the left hand side first then wind across the 3/8 hole and cut the right hand side from inside outwards so that you are not climb milling if you know what I mean

I would advise practice on a bit of scrap first

Roy

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Thanks very much Roy, yes understood, have read some info about climb milling. Going to give the slot a try tomorrow…

Cheers

Allan.

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

hi allan,

i would agree with roy. drill hacksaw and file much quicker and less anxious. in any event i would still remove most of the 'slot' by same before using a slot drill. i did all the eccentric rod forks on my current loco same method finishing the slot with a slot drill/endmill and had an excellent finish. other bits ive made using the same process however have turned out very bad for no apparent reason – so in your case after all the hard work on the rods i would take the safe way of filing the slots to size after drilling and hacksawing.

cheers,

julian

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Hi Julian

Thanks, I read your post before going over to the workshop earlier – both you and Roy have saved me making a mess today I'm sure. If I'd just gone at the slot with the 3/8" slot mill as I had intended I would likely be needing a restart now…

I'm hoping when switching over to the Mill for drilling that accuracy will be better over the Bench Drill, there was a big improvement on the Bench Drill in using the Wiggler over nothing but that was not really suitable for the Mill – so have ordered a new set of edge and centre finders from RDG Tools which I hope will do the job and get the improvement, and also help in setting up my little Rotary Table..

Anyways I wasn't comfortable in getting a hole central enough in the Rod until I can have a go at using the Mill and the new finders so decided not to drill and to go with an 8mm Slot Drill down the middle and then follow with the 3/8" I made a silly measuring mistake resulting in the fork being thinner than it should after I had done the slot and will have to turn down the taper to suit, but I hope it will be ok – if not it would be good practice to do again anyway… The main thing i wanted was to get a result with the slot… The intention was to get to the point Jason suggested before doing the turning…

The setup used to Mill the Con Rod Slot.

Checking the internal width of the intended 3'8" slot. It came out much closer than I expected, just slightly over size..

I think beginners luck was on my side again today.

The Con Rod so far 1.

The Con Rod so far 2.

The Con Rod so far 3.

So although not too brilliant with the silly mistake I was still quite pleased as this was a first attempt at a Milling a slot and looking forward now to having a go at turning between centre's…

Regards

Allan.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

That's quite a bit thinner you will have to take quite light cuts as its not going to be as rigid, what have you got there ? an 1/8" rather than a 1/4".

 

J

Edited By JasonB on 15/01/2014 16:33:40

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Hi Jason

it came out at just very slightly over 3.5mm. Yes it should have been a 1/4". Really silly thing to have done, I was concentrating all on getting the slot right….. Enjoyed doing it though…

Thanks

Allan.

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Another little update, although getting time has been difficult the last few days and not much progress made. Have managed to get the Con Rod onto the lathe now though…

Setting up the Con Rod to turn between Centre's – despite the new extended 'Live Centre', still had to extend the tailstock a lot..

Initial Rough Turning of the Con Rod to slightly oversize the largest diameter 1.

Initial Rough Turning of the con Rod to slightly oversize the largest diameter 2. (Sorry think this is very similar to the above pic..)

Time to have a go at the taper next. I know its not perhaps very important here but I was pleased to see that after turning the micrometer was measuring almost exactly the same diameter end to end – less than 1/3 of a thou difference…

Regards

Allan.

Sorry about the quality of the photos again, could do with a new iPhone I think.

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Another little update with the Con Rod. Hopefully have learnt a little at this first attempt at a taper, the main problem was in going too close each time with the profiling tool at the two shoulders. I was trying to go to the same point each time but had problems with the tool binding and having to make 'repairing passes' that were not planned for, I don't know if my little lightweight Lathe and the small 10mm tool made this more difficult, I would imagine that a more heavy weight setup would fair much better for this kind of thing – or very probably I was just going about it the wrong way. Towards the end I stopped trying to go so far into the corners and found it was an easy matter to just use a light touch in there with the round file afterwards. I think with this in mind I would hope to do much better next time. Also I was not sure of what Lathe speed to use when hand feeding the cross slide – I started out at about 450rpm and then went to about 600rpm which seemed a little better but I was also using a lighter cut by then. The end result is not very pretty, bit one sided! If I now mess up with the rounding off of the corners I wont be too upset at having to redo I think, but will probably go with it and accept it on this first project if I don't… I worked out the angle for the taper to be I think 2.8 – going from an 8mm max diameter to 4mm along about 40mm length (I think they were the figures), but as this was just really an exercise on achieving something that was pleasing to the eye it was not critical – something I've certainly failed at though… Hope if anyone else reads this with a little lathe and about to try something similar, like me with no experience of trying this, they may save themselves some problems – by feeding a little less into the corners each pass…

Maybe someone will post how it should be done..

Setting the Cross Slide angle for the taper.

Starting to turn the con Rod taper.

The Con Rod taper. The con Rod using a small drill bit through the bearing allowing the Con Rod to rest roughly in place along the engine.. i.e.. not fitted to anything! Tapered a bit more one side than the other..

Regards

Allan.

Hope someone at least finds it slightly interesting.

Going to see if I can use the little rotary table and new edge finders before resorting to filing buttons for the 'rounding off's' next..

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The rounded internals do need a bit of nibbling away at with the lathe running at a low speed using both cross and topslide handwheels due to the fact you are using almost a 1/4 of the cutting edge which on a 6mm button is like taking a 4.5mm depth of cut. Not helped that you had to take more off due to the thin fork.

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

hi allan,

i think you have done extremely well on what is quite a complex and noticeable part of the engine. i had a similar job just over a year ago when doing the Stroudley type conn rods on my 5"g version of STEPNEY (brighton terrier). yours are far more noticeable as not hidden by the loco frames!

cheers,

julian

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Thanks again Julian, I could do with a morale boost! Understanding why something went wrong ready for next time offsets mistakes a fair bit – so its thanks to Jason for explaining again, I'll remember to back out and go in very very very gently at the ends next time…

Cheers

Allan.

[GaryMParticipant @garym]

Hi Allan,

You might find this series of videos by Keith Appleton interesting/useful when you get to the final assembly and running stage.

**LINK**

He's started refurbishing a twin Victoria that doesn't run at present. Only started in December so it's a work in progress.

Gary

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Hi Gary

Thanks found both videos very interesting. I think Mr Appleton would take one look at my effort and just keep walking though! I wonder how much previous experience the builder, I would bet builders, had. Hope they weren't first timers like me, if they were I had best run away and hide somewhere! Interesting though as some / most of the parts look very well done – to me anyways. Some bits of note I thought were the reference to the rubber 'piston ring' not being suitable but it looks exactly like the one supplied to me. I did quite early on discover the importance of splitting the bearings, thanks to someone on here I think, but left it at the time as it looked difficult right at the start, but then of course later on a similar operation had to be done on the eccentric strap and it turned out to be not as bad to do as I thought, if anything the strap is harder with it having the recess – so I will be doing the same to bearings in future. Even the comment on "bushing it" didn't completely pass me by and was interesting. The video makes the points well though. Also interesting were the comments on the Crosshead and the possible problems as I'll be having a go at that soon myself…

Cheers.

Allan.

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Just another very small update..

Rounding off the corners of the Con Rod little end – apologies, it's such a small thing this for everyone I'm sure, but something I've been having trouble with (aiming to improve a little each time)… I did try and see if I could use my little Rotary Table but it seemed it would have been difficult to hold the tapered Rod steady and square – again in case someone else starting out may be interested, I think I made a mistake in buying such a small table (its a 3 or 4 inch..) – a 6" one or larger would have been a much better buy I think, much easier / more options for work holding…

This time I made the Filing Buttons to fit properly in and around the 3/8" hole.

The Filing Buttons and bar for the little end 1.

The Filing Buttons on the bar for the little end 2.

 

The Filing Buttons in place on the Con Rod ready for filing.

Filing the Con Rod little end. I used some tape on the bar ends to stop the buttons sliding off – but leaving them still able to rotate. I'm sure there are better ways?

The Con Rod little end after filing 1. Its not quite right but at least its a bit better than my last effort..

The Con Rod little end after filing 2. (Sorry its so blurry again).

Now to do the same thing for the big end and finish off the fork..

Regards

Allan.

 

 

Edited By Allan. on 29/01/2014 17:11:35

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Another little update to finish the Con Rod.

This has taken a while to do from start to finish but was a great exercise, maybe I should have restarted after making the error with the thickness of the fork (disappointed that I messed up on one of the easiest bits), but have learned lots again through doing it. Thanks again to those that gave all the advice and especially Jason for the overall method of how to go about it…

I would be very careful next time in the corners of the taper and hope it would turn out better – having made the fork too thin made the whole thing more difficult…

Starting to cutaway the Con Rod fork.

The Con Rod fork so far after some more filing.

The filing buttons made for the Con Rod Fork.

The filing buttons in place on the Con Rod Fork. Another silly but this time slight mistake in that the buttons were just slightly too large which gave a slight flat spot at the end to try and smooth out. Something I'll remember to double check next time.

The finished Con Rod (fitted to the Piston Crosshead) 1.

The finished Con Rod (fitted to the Piston Crosshead) 2.

The finished Con Rod (fitted to the Piston Crosshead) 3.

The finished Con Rod (fitted to the Piston Crosshead) 4. You can see in this photo how I messed up on the taper.

Have to make the bush for the little end next..

Regards.

Allan.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Looking good Allan. I know a lot of beginners find it tedius making filing buttons but if you store them away you will soon build up a collection that can be used on other projects and as they don't need to be made will speed up the job.

I would be inclined to round the outer edge of the fork to make the outside a smooth "U" shape, think thats how its shown on the drawings. If you turn a short 3/8" dia spigot on a bit of 5/8" bar it can be placed in the fork to help guide the file and save too much being taken off.

J

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Hi Jason

Thanks, yes it is shown rounded off on the drawings and it does look better – but I think I'll quit with it while ahead! The shape of the fork as it is doesn't look too bad to me at the moment but I am interested in what you say about the spigot for future efforts. I wonder how that would be held in place while filing, I know its only a tiny bit to come off that we are talking about – but please don't worry Jason you have given enough of your time helping already…

Maybe I can ask you about it next time around….

Cheers.

Allan.

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

47.

The Con Rod Bush. (Phosphor Bronze)

First time I have tried to make one of these and aimed to make it a 'press fit'… (I imagine making bushes is a very basic task to master…).

The Con Rod Bush Drawing.

A short length of Phosphor Bronze bar is supplied.

After facing, drilling the Con Rod Bush.

The Con Rod Bush after turning.

Checking the Crankpin fits the Con Rod Bush.

After parting off the Completed Con Rod Bush.

Press fitting the Bush to the Con Rod. I believe the micrometer was reading 9.52x mm on the Drill Bit used to drill the hole in the Con Rod and 9.47x mm on the outside diameter of the Bush – anyways it was way too tight to press in by hand. (I didn't have a reamer to fit when drilling the Con Rod)..

The Bush in the Con Rod 1.

The Bush in the Con Rod 2.

Test fitting the Con Rod Bush with the Crankpin 1.

Test fitting the Con Rod Bush with the Crankpin 2.

Regards.

Allan.

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

48.

The Crosshead. (Brass)

I didn't fully realise as I was doing it but milling the steps was the crucial bit and easiest to get wrong with this I think – next time needs more care and some 'test fittings' along the way – top to bottom on the guide bars is a very nice fit but just slightly too much play across the engine I think. Another lesson hopefully learned.

Also next project I need to concentrate on minimising and removing tool marks along the way and try for some better finishes..

The Crosshead Drawing.

One Brass Bar supplied for the Crosshead.

Milling the Croshead to overall size.

The Crosshead Bar cut into two and milled to size.

Drilling the Crosshead.

The Crosshead after turning.

The finished Crosshead 1.

The finished Crosshead 2.

Test fitting the Crosshead to the Con Rod.

Test fitting the Crosshead in the Engine. You can see the 'slack fit' across the engine – there is some slight movement side to side but not too much I hope, it may be a bit better after assembly with the guide bars tightened up..

Regards.

Allan.

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

hi alan,

looks excellent to me – you are doing extremely well on what are very fiddly jobs!

looks like your talents are wasted on a stationary engine – you ought to be building a 5"g loco!

cheers,

julian

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Hi Julian

Thanks very much for the kind words and re the 5" Loco – I wish! To have the skill to be able to approach that must be brilliant…

Would be great to get to a point and have a go one day though and plan to go up in size with each coming project, but do want to use my little lathe again for the next (larger scale) one before upgrading – hoping I will be able to. First reaction on thinking about building a Loco, apart from the obvious 'wow' factor, is the bending of metal to get the body shape etc which I imagine must be very difficult (for sure above me, at least at the moment..), also I seem to remember about reading about such things as 'quartering' of wheels – which sounds like some quite technical knowledge is needed. Maybe someday I may improve to a point where it would be worth making contact with a local ME club and learn more…

Cheers.

Allan.

 

 

Edited By Allan. on 09/02/2014 13:54:54

[GarryCParticipant @garryc]

Assembly 1.

Hi, I still have more bits to make but with the weather the way it is at the moment I thought may as well make a start on cleaning and Assembly in the warm..

I just wanted to ask if anyone can suggest the best way to prevent non painted surfaces from eventual rusting etc. I will be painting more surfaces than most I expect as my early work in particular had some very bad surface finishes – is there something that can be used to coat the surfaces other than a light oil, or is that the usual way and what most people do?

Thanks for any suggestions.

Regards.

Allan.

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