STUART TURNER MK 814 GENERATOR

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Good Morning gentlemen ! Does anyone have any information on the wartime Stuart Turner Mk 814 steam generator ? NOT the Firefly/ Alco unit driven by a sirius engine, but it’s successor ! The engine was specially designed for the job, single cylinder, single acting, has a variable demand feed water pump and oil pump to lubricate the engine ! The boiler casing is aluminium and has a superheater coil. It drives an alternator with a rectifier to give DC for battery charging and was parachute dropped to agents “in the field ” ! Many thanks. Noel.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I presume you will have seen this, Noel

https://www.stationroadsteam.com/stuart-814-generating-set-stock-code-2438/

… but others may not have

MichaelG.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Hi Michael, Thank you yes I had see it, there is in fact better pictures of one on the signals museum site. I shall be contacting Bridport Foundry/ Stuart Models it see if they inherited any archive documents. I hope to get my hands on one this weekend and may well do a write up for ME ! Noel.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Further to my initial post I now have a copy of the manual and it is interesting that whilst it’s predecessor was used during the 2WW, this latter Mk 814 unit has a reference to a  BS oil dated 1955 and it’s webbing lifting strap has the date 1956 on it, SO ? When were these units made, 1957 ? Cold war but not WW2 ! The whole kit appears to be complete, all bar 1 small oil tin and looks unused. Noel.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Well done Noel

… I’m not sure how credible “The Science Museum” is these days; but this may be of interest:

https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co50727/portable-generating-set-made-for-h-m-government-communications-centre

MichaelG.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Well that sort of confirms my thoughts Michael – thank you. Noel.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Right Gentlemen ! Further to the above and there seems to be little info about. One source suggests that being Cold War (built 1956) these units were for the diplomatic wireless service ? The most obvious use being in the soviet bloc ? With a rated output of only 2.4A at 6-8V the 60w hand powered generator would be more use but a man would get tired, this thing could keep going all day for the sake of water and sticks ! I will contact the Science Museum, but neither Stuart Turner or Stuart Models Have any info and it appears that nor do the Royal Corp of Signals Museum at Blandford Forum.

Anybody got any ideas as to where to look ?

For those who may wonder what I’m talking about, ME V164 1990 Ed 3865-7-9-71-73, the last having a picture on the front cover of the Mk814, though most of the articles, in 5 parts covers the earlier wartime ALCO FIREFLY and the construction of a replica. On this subject the Mk814 has an aluminium pot boiler, finned a bit like an air cooled cylinder barrel, with a water gauge,feed clack and safety valve on the bolted on end plate. In this day and age the likelyhood getting a certificate is not so and I DO intend to operate it at some shows Etc. To this end it will work happily on my 6″ vertical boiler, to start with. Whilst the boiler could be replaced in the original casing, I’m minded to make a new water tube boiler, think Stuart 504 type, and a casing but use the original grate, fire box and chimney.  Noel.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Forgive me if I am “barking up the wrong tree” Noel, but I think the statement in the Science Museum entry might be worth pursuing further

Made for H.M. Government Communications Centre

.

When I had a little dig around … that body appears [pre 1956] to have been located at Kingsway Telephone Exchange.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingsway_telephone_exchange

Given the widespread interest in telephony, you might find some snippet of information on one of the enthusiast sites.

MichaelG.

 

[Michael Gilligan]

On Michael Gilligan Said:

I presume you will have seen this, Noel

https://www.stationroadsteam.com/stuart-814-generating-set-stock-code-2438/

… but others may not have

MichaelG.

Thanks for the link Michael

H

[noel shelley]

On noel shelley Said:

Right Gentlemen ! Further to the above and there seems to be little info about. One source suggests that being Cold War (built 1956) these units were for the diplomatic wireless service ? The most obvious use being in the soviet bloc ? With a rated output of only 2.4A at 6-8V the 60w hand powered generator would be more use but a man would get tired, this thing could keep going all day for the sake of water and sticks ! …

Anybody got any ideas as to where to look ?

For those who may wonder what I’m talking about, ME V164 1990 Ed 3865-7-9-71-73, the last having a picture on the front cover

 

…

Noel.

Can’t help with the Stuart, though maybe I can suggest another route.   The Stuart was one of a number of ways of providing power to Clandestine Radio sets.   From before WW2 and well into the 20th century, basically before satellites, HF radio was often the only practical way of communicating from behind enemy lines, so many countries developed small transceivers for agents, spies, resistance fighters, sleepers, stay behind groups and special forces.  Also used by embassies and the military.  All covert, usually SECRET at the time, and either designed and built in-house, or bought in more-or-less devious ways.  Before about 1960 the sets were mostly valve circuits, and needed quite a lot of power, which was a serious problem when mains wasn’t available, as in when hiding in a forest.

The photo above, pinched from the Imperial War Museum website, is of Oluf Reed Olsen operating a Paraset MkIII from a Norwegian backwood: he is communicating in encrypted morse code with SIS in the UK.

In the UK, most sets seem to have been supplied by the Secret Intelligence Service, otherwise known as MI6.  They would have sourced the power supply too.

The IWM site says ‘The work of MI6 was a closely guarded secret – its role and very existence was not officially recognized until the Intelligence Services Act of 1994 and the authorised history of the service ends in 1949.’  Not an organisation keen to help the public!

Buying the Stuart, it’s likely that MI6 would have used another Government Department, possibly the GPO, more likely the Ministry of Supply, one of Armed Services, or the Diplomatic Wireless Service, because they could claim to have a non-convert need for reserve radios.   Buying via a third party made it slightly less obvious the kit had a covert purpose, which mattered during the cold-war.  Not embarrassing Stuart made generators for SIS, SOE and Jedburgh during WW2, but the post-war existence of stay-behind/resistance arrangements like GLADIO is still very sensitive.

Power was supplied in various ways: mains if available, but often lead acid batteries that could be charged with a hand-crank, or a generator attached to a bike frame, a vehicle, or a small steam engine.   The advantage of a Stuart engine was it quietly provided power from water and anything handy that would burn.  Far from popular though – it’s size and weight were a serious disadvantage: hard to sneak through a check-point, and horribly heavy being carried deep into the woods.

I suggest investigating the radios, which are better documented, as a way of finding out about how they were powered.  As MI6 supplied SOE and Jedburgh, the Imperial War Museum might have more information.  The National Archive would probably have some files.   The book ‘The Secret Wireless War’, G Pigeon, ISBN 1-84375-252-2 UPSO 2003 might be worth a look.

I own a replica Paraset, but have never tried in on air because I need a suitable crystal and power supply.   The transmitter is a power oscillator that needs a beefy 1940’s quartz crystal.  Hard to find and modern crystals can’t take the current.  Not finding a crystal put me off building a suitable power supply, so it’s another stalled project.

Dave

 

 

 

 

 

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Hi Dave, In about 10 days time I will have a set of “Wireless for the Warrior” books by Louis Meurlstee, volume 4 is on clandestine radio, and has some info on the Mk814 but having been in touch with the author I understand that there is little info out there. There is plenty of info on WW2 gear but the cold war was strangely more secret – even now ! The cold war was also operated by other bodies rather than just the military. The context of power consumption is interesting as even I was using transistors in 1959, though not at HF, I built a 7 valve comms set in 1967 with 6.3v heaters, all that wasted power ! The IWM and the Nation records office may have something – I would be interested in it’s intended theatre of use and purpose in detail. I will try and get the book you mention. Unrelated but interesting is Winston Churchills Toy shop ! Many thanks. Noel.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

There is some justification to using valves even in modern military kit. Glass and metal are largely unaffected by even large doses of radiation, transistors and more especially microchips get fried. I’m not convinced by this argument, is there an advantage in the operator being able to broadcast his imminent demise?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I can’t find the particular specification at the moment, Duncan … but I do remember the cold shiver that came over me when I read it.

One radiation hardening test requires that the equipment remains functional at [something like] a point when 25% of the troops are still capable of fighting for another 30 minutes.

.

If I ever find it, I will quote it verbatim instead of trusting my memory.

MichaelG.

.

Edit: __ not what I was looking-for, but this is an interesting reference, and freely downloadable:

https://www.acq.osd.mil/ncbdp/nm/NMHB2020rev/docs/NMHB2020rev.pdf

 

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