Stuart Engine as motive power

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

Although I would love to build a live steam railway locomotive I think I would prefer something that could be useable on a whim, therefore my postage stamp back garden isn't really suitable as any railway would be very short indeed! As a result I considered both Traction engines and steam wagons, but I suspect due to only having a lathe a traction engine is out. I would wish to make something of a good tangible size; although I am amazed at the beautiful models people make in the smaller sizes I would like something a little larger.

As discussed in another thread about Undertype wagons I'm now thinking that I would be best off designing something that suits my facilities (i.e. the ML7, my inability to make anything other than tiny castings etc). As a result both overtype and undertype steam wagons are currently being considered, but to my own design. I like the idea of an undertype as I figure I could base the design around using a stuart marine type engine or similar, suitably geared.

**LINK**

With correct reduction I reckon this would make for a smooth and powerful undertype wagon capable of pulling a small load. Is that a fair comment?

The only thing I don't like about this idea is that I don't really like the type of boilers used in an undertype; I would prefer an overtype boiler. However if I make an overtype would I be best off buying castings for a traction engine in order to make my source of power?

I'm still in the early stages of deciding what to do, as you can probably tell. I have no real issue with making my own homage to a design rather than accurately replicating it, but I would still like it to be something I am proud to display rather than feel I should hide as it feels cobbled together!

Any pointers, tips or experiences would be gratefully received. I don't heed every piece of advice I'm given but I do appreciate every bit! I'm mainly trying to generate discussion that helps me clear things in my mind and discount unsuitable ideas.

Thanks, Jon.

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

Bear with me….

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Don't know why you have ruled out a TE, The allchin and even a 2" fowler can be done on a myford, granted a mill will make things easier but it can and has been done.

Have you looked at John Hainings Suffolk Dredging engine or thought of basing your freelance on a full size Avery Traction Engine which would work with a Stuart horizontal or two slung under a traction engine type boiler. Also I don't like them myself but the PYRE model traction engine would be another option. A scaled up "MEG" wagon would be another option, this was an overtype.

The high reving enclosed engines will use a lot of steam and ideally want a flash steam boiler.

Edited By JasonB on 02/06/2018 12:40:58

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

Excellent points raised, thank you.

I would still love to do a traction engine, I didn't realise a 2" fowler was an achievable option. I'll resume looking into that as a possibility.

I haven't looked at the JHSDE but I now will! Thanks for the lead. Same goes for the Avery.

As much as I admire the PYRE I feel its a little small, and still a little toylike. I mean no offence to those who have built them, its still a great piece of engineering in its own right, and more than I have achieved so far.

The fact they might need a flash boiler could actually be an advantage. As a child in my grandads workshop I read, reread and read again J.H Bensons "Experimental Flash Steam" and think a flash steam boiler could be quite an interesting prospect for an undertype. Again, food for thought.

Jon.

[Graham SwalesParticipant @grahamswales]

Jon

I am not sure where you are located in the UK, but the Model Steam Road Vehicle Society (MSRVS) is holding its annual show on the weekend of June 23rd and 24th in Tewkesbury. There will be around 60 engines on site, in all scales and sizes and plenty of people to ask questions and advice of.

There are plans to offer driving experiences and so you would also have the chance to sit behind a traction engine or roller.

You would get a really warm welcome and the society has a wealth of experience and support on offer. If you or anyone else needs any more information on the society or the show, either PM me or look on the website:-

www.msrvs.co.uk

Regards

Grum

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

I'm in North Dorset, near Shaftesbury. That annual show sounds fantastic, a couple of hours drive but sounds worth the trek!

[Henry RuiterParticipant @henryruiter35703]

I’ve seen a steam wagon with a twin Stuart engine to power it.

Thanks Henry

[Jan BParticipant @janb]

Hi,

My son and I are building a steam wagon that will be driven by a Stuart Twin launch engine built by my son. This steam wagon will not be a true scale model. We are using drawings from a Clayton 2 inch version by Robin Tyler. Al dimensions are multiplied by a factor of 1.25. The purpose of this project is to make something that is relative simple and quick to make.

We have a question about best way to fit rubber to the wheels. The front wheels are made of aluminum 7075 and the rear wheels are aluminum 6082. We are planning to glue layers of rubber strips but we don’t know what kind of glue to use.

If you look in my album you can see some pictures of the project so far.

Jan

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

Sounds like a great little project Jan; just the sort of thing I was thinking of. I imagine with the right gearing there would be plenty of torque and pace.

I've used Araldite to bond rubber to aluminium before but I have no idea if it would cope with the flex you will be experiencing.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

This is pure speculation but I doubt that flex in the adhesive matters for the base layer..since the ally isn't going to have much flex either. If making layers of rubber on rubber then instinct suggests the glues used for patching inner tubes might be worth trying?

pgk

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The usual adhesive for the traction engine rubber profile is Marineflex. make your rubber rings a slightly smaller dia than the cast wheel and jooint them with a good quality cynoacrylate adhesive. Then use teh marine flex to bond the rubber to the wheel and subsequent layers of rubber. You will need to use something like a tyre lever to get the rings on and it is a very messy job.

Rather than layers you may be able to find a tyre profile that suits, MJ Engineering sell a range as well as the adhesives

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Until the earth quake upset business in Christchurch, there was a firm called Rubber Molding that I used a number of times making rubber components for WW2 Willys Jeeps that we were rebuilding, this firm (there must be others) would vulcanise rubber onto wheels. They used some sort of primer on the metal. Your wheel would form part of the mould, and the rest of the mould is removable to use on the next wheel, then store away until a retread is needed.

If you make your own moulds the process is quite cheap, if you get a professional job, it will cost thousands. You need the wheels, a ring with the outside dia as its bore, and two side plates that will locate the wheel and outer ring and bolt together firmly.

The moulds that I lost in the EQ were valued at over $NZ10,000, actual cost minus time, nearer to $NZ10.

Ian S C

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

There are quite a few companies over here that will vulcanise your own rims but the method is not usually used for much below 3" scale. They don't need a mould, the rubber is built up onto the rim, vulcanized and then shaped

[Gas_mantle.Participant @gas_mantle]

Not sure if this is of interest to you but it shows a steam loco powered by a Stuart D10 :-

**LINK**

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

It's all of interest! Thank you

[Jan BParticipant @janb]

Thank you all for useful information.

Jason, using Marineflex sounds like a good method. Problem is that I can´t find any supplier of that product here in Sweden. I have found some products that looks similar so I will try one and see if it works. I don´t mind a messy job as long as it works out ok.

By the way, the wheels are not cast, they are machined from solid round bars. I have access to a CNC-milling machine at work. This is a father and son prodject, so I did the machinig of the front wheels and my son made the rear wheels.

Ian, using a mold sounds like an interesting method, but i don´t think there is any company near me that can do this.

Gas_mantle, yes i have come across this video before and it is a pity that it dosen`t show the locomotive running.

What do you think about the gear ratio between engine and wheel axle, is a reduction of 1:10 to much?

Jan

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

I've got a spreadsheet at work that I made which woks out optimum ratios for running from a Sirius, it would adapt easily for you but we would need to know wheel size, typical RPM for the engine and your desired speed. I sketched up a design for a two speed box that would give up to 4mph (max!) or 10mph (max!) to give torque or speed as desired. Those speeds were purely speculative and not fully researched.

I'll grab the spreadsheet when I'm next in work and you are welcome to use it.

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