Steam Boat Ban

[jomacParticipant @jomac]

Why, can the Germans run live steam indoors and outside. ie Senshiem (sorry about the spelling), and you Poms have to ban everthing . that in some spotty public servant, deluded brain, MIGHT???, cause an accident , if its inside or now, outside, A sign to say there could be a problem, should by rights be enough. although idiots will always be idiots, their the ones that do need stickers on them.

John H.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Ian T, perhaps the clubs insurance co., suggested that if they went electric they might get a lower price policy.

seen in the two dollar shop toy department “DANGER chocking hazard”, not for under 36 months, what was it, a Frisby about 200 mm dia. nother was a similar notice on a pack of tennis balls, any Kiwi will know about tennis balls, a certain MP, and tennis balls in mouths a few years ago, but we’ll leave that alone.  Ian S C

Edited By Ian S C on 30/04/2011 13:23:46

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

Ian T,

 

I certainly agree that “The days when a member of the public did something stupid (like touching something hot) got hurt, apologised, walked away and was never seen again are – sadly – long gone.” But I’m not sure of the point. If I’m on a boating lake and my little mamod boiler bursts and causes you injury, you will sue me. I understand that. What no one has dumped into this thread is the track record of accidents caused in this way.

 

I certainly agree with you on the complex high pressure stuff.

 

What still hasn’t appeared in the thread is the rationale for the model club requesting the ban in the first place, which would also be very interesting to have access to.

 

Steve

[IanTParticipant @iant]

The problem that is lurking behind all of this apparently stupid behaviour by our local authorities (and perhaps influencing the boat club’s thinking) can be summed up by the term “Compensation Culture”

 

We have always had people who are willing to take advantage of others for their own gain – the difference being that these days we have legal companies who are very willing to encourage and assist them. Even if common sense would seem to dictate that no real damage has been done – the cost of going to law is very high – so many cases are simply settled out of court. It’s a win-win situation for the legal firms involved – they get paid either way.

 

And even if it was your Mamod that went bang Steve (and so badly frightened the person/horse/dog/cat/pet budgie etc – that they are now a nervous wreck) – you might not have that much money (and not be insured either) but the lawyers know that the Council (who own the pond) have lots and may just decide it’s cheaper to settle – a quick win / immediate profit for the lawyers.

 

It doesn’t make any sense but that seems to be the world we now live in – and all we can do is to try and make sure that we minimise our exposure to any such risks (as much as is possible) by taking sensible precautions.

 

I suspect that some of our Council officials (and Boat Club Chairman?) look at things in much the same way & are also trying to minimise their risks – and even though some of what they do may not seem that sensible to us – it clearly must make sense to them..

 

It’s easy to mock them – but the real problem is the system that allows this abuse of the law in the first place.

 

Ian T

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

Most people have £3m – £5m third party liability insurance included in their household insurance terms. Obviously, if there is a claim and the insurance company can show a lack of reasonable care they will walk away.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

It would seem now that all active pastimes are now being banned, shooting, fox hunting and model airplanes and now a ban on steam engine boats in a lake that is designed for the pastime. Even childrens playgrounds are now so soft the kids dont want to use them or go there.

Take to mind the bin police and the level of fines allowed. Its only rubbish after all and we pay for it anyway.

The threat of litigation seems to sharpen the minds of these cretins who are just one jump up from shop stewards.

They justify their positions by harrasing the population, and eventually gain a high position of authority that only gives them a good living when they retire or even better ousted from their position and they then claim comp.

Its only us the people who have to put up with all the clap trap they come out with.

Bear in mind on Thurs. next there is a local election and a referendum, if you dont like what is going on then vote!

If they are voted out into the wilderness thats them finished, why not tell them so as well.

They are servants of the people after all and unfortunately we have to fork out the money for it!

A club is the best way of going about getting your rights and facilities, they are bound by legislation to provide facilties but this seems to have fallen by the wayside in recent times.

Perhaps its time for us to re-assert ourselves and make them take notice of us the people.

 

Clive

[adyParticipant @ady]

Why, can the Germans run live steam indoors and outside. ie Senshiem
(sorry about the spelling), and you Poms have to ban everthing . that
in some spotty public servant, deluded brain, MIGHT???, cause an
accident

 

Germany has, because of the Nazis, various safeguards against fascist style decrees from central government.

Central government stuff affecting personal liberties needs to be ratified at state level.

This means that different states have different levels of ratification.

The recent anti-smoking stuff took a while to get through Germany because the last non-drinking non-smoking animal loving vegetarian who enabled anti-smoking legislation was Adolf Hitler.

 

Britain does not have this level of protective democracy…actually Britain doesn’t have any real democracy at all.

We haven’t even been permitted a vote on Europe since 1975, as far as Europe is concerned we might as well be living in the USSR.

 

http://www.howtogermany.com/pages/nosmoking.html

[adyParticipant @ady]

Bear in mind on Thurs. next there is a local election and a referendum, if you dont like what is going on then vote!

If they are voted out into the wilderness thats them finished, why not tell them so as well.

 

Changing politicians won’t matter. These people are the unelected administration, the unelected power mad civil servants at both State and Local Council level.

You would need to elect radicals who would then sack these people and replace one set of dogmatic nutters with another set of dogmatic nutters.

 

plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose

 

edit:

I know a few who live locally, although these folk try to live lives of anonymity in the community my job helps me to observe them.

I used to think local council dogma was enabled by angry sociopathic individuals, but in fact many of these people live highly structured extremely habitual almost autistic lifestyles and this is reflected in their “blind obedience to orders” approach to their job.

Intruiging things humans.

 

Aye. There’s nowt like folk lad.

 

Edited By ady on 01/05/2011 11:02:36

[michael coleParticipant @michaelcole91146]

The local club just want electric or sails on this pond no steam or petrol. There is a much bigger boating pond local which will allow steam and petrol but then you have to be a member of the club. This is my local boatings pond and it is just the club trying to have control.

 

Mike

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

I guess that gets you into questions like ” should a club have the final say in the use of a council provided facility?” which is a political question that only the locals can answer. If it is a pool built and owned by a club, then fair enough.

 

However, if the only excuse for banning steam boats is the risk of boiler explosions then they are quite frankly talking nonsense. While it is not an impossible occurrance, history show that it is so vanishing rare as to be a minimal risk, in these smaller sizes. There is of course a risk of fire, but then I think that is actually a higher risk with the electric boats.

 

regards

John

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

John, until a year or two ago there would have been more danger of fire from the boaties smoking, but I imagine that they have banned smoking at a public parks now. Its the lithium batteries now, they are more likely to explode than any little boiler. Ian S C

[Martin WParticipant @martinw]

Hi

 

With regard battery fires I believe that the L ion (Lithium Ion) cells are pretty stable but it is the Li-Po (Lithium polymer) cells that have a habit of bursting into flames if mistreated. A little time back there was trouble with these batteries in laptop computers causing fires etc. I wonder if laptop computers will be banned at boating pools now .

 

Cheers

 

Martin

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by Ian Abbott on 27/04/2011 17:27:43:

…………………………. Remember the bloke lying face down in a two foot deep pond, with the ambulance et al standing on the bank, refusing to get him………………….

 

 

Ian

Sorry Ian,

 

I missed that one, references please (Daily Mail or Sun doesn’t count). Lets have the evidence

 

I think that I’ve stumbled into a mass meeting of Basil Fawlty and Victor Meldrew clones being discussed on an episode of Grumpy Old
Men and reported in the Daily Mail by a drunken hack determined to get a
byline before being sacked.   Don’t let the truth spoil a good story (rant) eh?

 

Unbelievable.

 

T

Edited By Terryd on 03/05/2011 22:22:44

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

your not far off there Terry. Ian S C

[Ian AbbottParticipant @ianabbott31222]

Posted by Ian Abbott on 27/04/2011 17:27:43:

…………………………. Remember the bloke lying face down in a two foot deep pond, with the ambulance et al standing on the bank, refusing to get him………………….

Ian

Sorry Ian,

 

I missed that one, references please (Daily Mail or Sun doesn’t count). Lets have the evidence

 

 

 

BBC Radio 4 news item, I think it was about three months ago, but I’ll do a search.

 

Ian

[Ian AbbottParticipant @ianabbott31222]

Here’s the pond story curtesy of the Mail.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1365272/Emergency-services-left-man-floating-face-lake-half-hour-health-safety-reasons.html

 

Ian

[Nick Clarke 1Participant @nickclarke1]

Hi there, I did not realise the fuss over the banning of steam boats at New Brighton has spilled over to the halloeed pages of Model Engineer. It was I who was pictured in the papers and on BBC North west, this ‘ ban’ , it seems was not a prpoer ban, the council put the signs up at the request of NBMBC, whose only reason for it was, and I quote Mr Alan Dean, illustrious president of the club ‘we dont want them here’. he made that comment before the fuss started in a conversation I had with him some time ago, that was all he could say after I had parried all his thrusts regarding insurance etc. I am a member of the MPBA, and am covered by their insurance. My Maccsteam boiler has a 4 year manufacturers test certificate, my little German manufactured boiler is classed as ‘toy steam’ I tried to have it tested, but this proved not possible, and I have been reliably informed that it does not require testing due to tis size and the fact that it falls well within the bar/litre rules. I have also been told that Mr Dean does not speak for all at the club. the man is a fool, (hope I am allowed to say that) not just my opinion, but also that of many others. Here is a link to the Modelboat Mayhem forum

 

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=29800.0

 

This bloke was interviewed by BBc and he said, on TV that ‘ these things can explode, sending red hot pieces of shrapnel flying in all directions, I’m not saying it will kill any body, but they will certainly maim somone’ what a load of tosh, the man clearly does not know what he is talking about.

Anyway, the upshot of all this is that I can sail my steamers at New Brighton lake whenever I wish, there has been no by-law put into force, so I will not be doing anything illegal and If anyone was to complain (at the lake) I couldn’t care less, I am doing no wrong.

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

Well said Nick – what a breath of fresh air and realism.

 

As you say, the man is a fool, and totally devoid of common sense, like so many today.

 

You go sail your steamers and to hell with silly fools who are proven to be ignorant to boot!

 

Edited By ChrisH on 15/06/2011 12:19:55

[adyParticipant @ady]

Nice to hear a bit of common sense prevailed with the model steamboats

 

——————————

 

The other accident where someone actually died sounds completely crazy.

 

The crews of two fire engines, two police cars, two ambulances and an air ambulance were told not to enter the lake, which is no more than three feet (one metre) at its deepest point, in case they ‘compromised their safety’.

There doesn’t seem to be much point in calling emergency services anymore.

Crazy stuff.

 

Link

 

[Richard ParsonsParticipant @richardparsons61721]

I once asked a City Safety Manager why he had closed a foot path by the river. His reply was “Because I can”!

I pointed out that the path was a grant to the citizens made by the Benedictine monks in 12 hundred and how’s your father. It the gift was made In exchange for closing the highway made by the King (Stephan of Blois). The pathway had to be there to allow the citizens to get to the river to catch fresh fish which was a right they (the citizens) had been given by the king of Wessex (Alfred). His reply was to the effect that they cannot fish anymore!

[adyParticipant @ady]

Modern Councils are like a modern day version of the medieval clergy, far too powerful and they gleefully interfere in far too much of our day to day lives.

 

I used to wonder how the dissolution of the monasteries went through with barely a hitch back in Henry VIIIs time. These incredible assets up and down the country were stripped and left to rot, while the few big ones that still remain are breathtaking national monuments, even today.

Back in 1200-1450 these places must have been incredible to behold.

 

I reckon that most people were sick and fed up of the monastic busybodies poking their noses into everyones lives and if it meant they would never annoy anyone ever again then it was a price well worth paying.

[Nick Clarke 1Participant @nickclarke1]

Just been reading back over this thread, I think a quick update is in order. Three years on now and I have been happily sailing my steam boats, no one makes a fuss about it, I have not killed, maimed or injured anyone with an exploding boiler and everyone gets along just fine, and, I am now an active member of the new club. Here is a photo of my launch steaming happily around the lake.

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

Which would I be likely to be granted permission to build first, a lake or a boiler, now theres a question?

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

Well done Nick but must admit I had the total opposite happen to me, I live a couple of 100 yards from my local park so I thought it would be a great place to steam my 3" Burrell so I phone the head of parks for my local council told him what I would like to do and found that he was a little reticent I pointed out that once a year he had full size tracion engines in the park for a weekend "yes he said but they have paperwork and insurance" I told him I had all of that to which he replied "why did't you say your welcome to steam in the park any time"

H

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

As I had originally ticked the box, years ago, to alert me to new posts on this thread, I got alerts for the two posts from fizzy and Harry above, but also another four posts from one other person, who's language and post content were not in accordance with the requirements of the forum.

I mention this as I am so glad that the forum moderators have removed these posts which I did find offensive. I was at sea for many years so am wise to the occasionally unsavoury ways of the world. There is a time and place for everything, and for those posts it was not here and now. Well done moderators!

Chris

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