Starting out a young enthusiast

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

65 years ago , I was in the same position as your son is in now.

The brutal truth is , without adequate resources , money and facilities , it is not possible to achieve 'the dream'.

The very minimum , is a 'shed, vice, drilling machine, tools, lathe , propane torch, etc ,

However, IF you can persuade your son to build a model aeroplane, model boat , etc instead, then I am sure it will be a valuable confidence building exercise which will eventually finish with his 'dream' being realised.

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

An 11 year old, wanting to build a steam loco is very commendable and should be encouraged but as stated already they can be very expensive, requireing a workshop with power tools. Lathes and milling machines are dangerous tools and someone with little or no experience could easily hurt themselves.

Many clubs will take a youngster under their wing and teach and supervise young members.

Wonderland Models sell a Wilesco model steam traction engine in kit form. **LINK**

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

That Wilesco looks a pretty realistic starting point, Paul

Educational, and useable in itself.

Not bad, at £1 a day for a year

MichaelG.

[Vivienne MossParticipant @viviennemoss75737]

Thanks again everyone lots for me to look into!

We are going to have a try this week at making a functioning loco from our recycling bin, coke cans cardboard straws and an electric motor for now.

[Vivienne MossParticipant @viviennemoss75737]

Posted by OldMetaller on 15/02/2021 05:15:32:

Hi Viv, this forum, The Unofficial Mamod and Other Steam Forum-

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/modelsteam/

…is an excellent, well-moderated place for youngsters who are fascinated by steam models. I was a member for years and realised my own dream of becoming a model engineer with the help of one of it's members. There were many older children on there, the moderators were very assiduous in keeping them safe.

They used to have an annual Toy Steam Fair at Owston Ferry, if you are in Lincoln this would be quite close to you.

Good luck to your budding engineer, and tell him: I always wanted to be an engine driver…and now I am one!

John.

Thank you for this have got him signed up and he's enthusiastic yo get talking to other steam heads

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Splendid new, Vivienne!

Give him all the encouragement that you can.

If he wants to make a working steam loco, or even a battery electric one, he will need to learn some new skills.

Much as Model Engineering is fascinating hobby, it can be quite expensive, depending on what is desired.

He wants to start with something simple, so that he acquires the new skills and the confidence to use them.

A Meccano set is good starting point, not only will your son become adapt at assembling things (manual skills ) but he will almost inadvertently learn some maths, mechanics, about structures. (pulley ratios, gear ratios, stiffness of devices etc ) and a bit about electrics. All will stand him in good stead in his future life.

As already said, a good starting point might be assembling an engine, as opposed to a loco, from a machined kit of parts. Stuart can supply in three forms, castings for machining, pre machined parts to be assembled, and a complete engine. The price increases by a actor of about five for each stage. Several years ago, a set of castings for a small vertical single cylinder steam engine (Not a locomotive ) was about £65, the pre machined kit was about £300 more, as I recall. Things like the nuts and bolts to complete assembly would need to be obtained locally.

If the budget would run to a Chines mini lathe (secondhand or new ) plus other tools (measuring equipment etc ) would be an excellent starting point for later life. But you are talking thousands of pounds even at a basic level.

He would need to learn Safety, even hand tools could inflict a serious wound, powered machinery even more so!

The a start can be made on learning to use the machine, initially by just cutting metal, and then by making simple things. AS in all things, it is essential to learn to walk before entering for the Olympics!

If the budget won't run to that, as happier times return, find a local Model Engineering Society (Whereabouts are you? Look on Google ) Hopefully, it would welcome a new young member. Some, like Hereford SME, set aside facilities for their younger members, and provide tuition, to encourage youth. (I am not a HSME member, being based in East Anglia , but have seen their facilities and some of what the younger members do )

Possibly someone would be prepared to have your son in their workshop to watch, learn, and help

The country needs Engineers, so the older ones should encourage and mentor new, younger, members.

Hope that this helps a little..

Howard

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

When I started on model engineering albeit as an adult my objective was to build a 5" King. I realised at the time that it would take many years for me to complete (it's not finished yet at 28 years and counting) so I looked on it as a long term project with other things being made during that time including many workshop tools and equipment and periods when no time was available too. When I started I just had a drill press and hand tools, the lathe came a year or so later. There are many parts such as frames and tender part which require nothing more than hacksaws files and a drill press to make and which teach many foundational skills such as marking out sawing, filing and drilling accurately.

In short if he wants to build a steam engine go for it. Realise it's a long term aim. Make other things along the way to learn skills and act as variety but get on with it. I have seen some of the stuff that other youngsters have produced at varius shows including engines labled as 'so and so aged 15 or 16' and as such they must have started out at an age not much different than your lad. An engine looks daunting but many of the componants are quite simple and there is plenty of easy stuff to do to start with.

Could I also suggest the build book for 'Tich' as a description of how to build a loco. As Tich is very simple it's easy to read but even so conveys pretty much all the things required on a larger loco.

regards Martin

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

So here's a challenge! What's the most straightforward working engine that can be made with simple hand-tools and household materials? To run on air from a car foot-pump rather than steam in the first instance, or maybe a beam engine based on an electromagnet?

As a super-rich pensioner I tend to think in terms of a fully equipped workshop with a big lathe, 3D CAD, and a full orchestra of expensive tools. Disgraceful, or at least unimaginative! After all great things were done in the past on kitchen tables and in Prisoner of War camps. Surely we can do better.

Any suggestions? What would LBSC have done in 1895? I'm having a think…

Dave

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember12892]

[This posting has been removed]

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

£3k on a Myford plus all the other sundries just to get an 11 year old started on his own is ridiculous. One of the smaller benchtop machines is probably more suitable, and much cheaper but spending a grand would still be easy.

So how about a 21st century approach?

Get him started with basic hand tools making/modifying parts, what they are doesn't matter. Learn how to work safely and well. That's what an apprentice did at the start of their career. A vice(one of the cheap workmate copies will do), hacksaw, small files and a means of using drills won't come to much if they're not already available.

Working on things like bikes is useful.

Meccano, LEGO technic, or similar are a good way of learning to assemble things that do something.

Download Fusion 360 and learn how to design things. Add a 3D printer to make some of them.

If he shows aptitude and is still interested, that is the time to be looking at small machine tools.

Linking up with like minded people in person dramatically reduces the learning curve, although that's not currently an option.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Hello Viv, There are many books on making simple steam engines available, though I'm sure the internet is also full of how to dos. As far as soft soldering goes a large electric" Henley Solon" iron of 65watts would be good, you will need plenty of heat. A small 15 or 25 watt electric iron for electronic work will struggle to make sound joints. Don't worry about solder being lead free, you may get away with cored solder but a tin of fluxite will be handy .Check that the material you use is tin plate with a magnet and NOT aluminium. Cleanliness is vital for success when soldering, some tins have a noncorrosive coating on that will make soldering immpossible without much cleaning. Some products are sold in 5L metal cans, these are ideal and easy to cut.. When cutting tinplate be careful, as being thin it will cut finger easily ! Good luck. Noel

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

I came across this link

some time ago and athough lot of the material is dated there maybe something in there to make with limited tools

H

[Anonymous]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 15/02/2021 13:45:39:

…………in terms of a fully equipped workshop with a big lathe, 3D CAD, and a full orchestra of expensive tools. Disgraceful…………………………

Shocking, I can't imagine any self-respecting forum member having the gall to be so equipped.

As a kid I built a small oscillating engine and boiler using hand tools. Although, to be fair, I think the boiler was silver soldered at school. I then moved onto a 3.5" gauge steam loco with the help of a £10 lathe and free pillar drill, courtesy of the local model engineering society. In the early 1970s, while at secondary school, I used to cycle across town on Saturday morning to use the workshop of a fellow member of the society. He had a small lathe and home built milling machine. On Sunday mornings I went round the corner from my parents house to an amateur radio enthusiast to learn about radio and electronics. Those were different times – my parents never met, or even spoke to, either of the people I visited.

I have a leaflet (a reprint probably from the 1940s or 50s) detailing how to build an oscillating engine using only hand tools. There is a caveat; I suspect the boiler was soft soldered and wouldn't meet modern requirements. But if the OP sends me an email address via a PM I'm happy to scan the leaflet and email it.

Andrew

[Thomas CooksleyParticipant @thomascooksley79020]

Hi everyone, I have to say that I do like Paul Lousick's idea of a ready machined kit that can be assembled with simple tools. He can put it together and take it apart as often as he likes and learn how a steam engine works. He can also examine each part to see what goes into making them. Then he could start out trying to copy some of the simpler parts and build up his abilites that way. Viv I read in one of your posts that you were interested in a lathe for yourself if you have the funds available you wouldn't go far wrong with a SIEG SC2 quite a nice little lathe with lots of accessories available to build in to a very useful machine. Hope some of this helps and keeps your boy interested, Tom.

Edited By Thomas Cooksley on 15/02/2021 15:56:56

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

Before you set out on your task …………. watch this.

You Tube 'Building an engine of the Princess Royal Class'.

If that doesn't inspire you……………………..

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Meccano is a good starting point to learn some basic mechanics.

Before launching into power tools, he will need some supervisiom, tuition, and mentoring.

Even a battery powered drill can be dangerous if not handled properly.

Do try to find a local ME Club where he can receive both instruction and inspiration.

But walking comes before joining the Olympic sprint team!

He will grow up to be a greater benefit to society than it ever realises, as the local "Mr Fixit" as well as a maker of superb models.

You are ding him a great service.

Howard

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Hi Vivienne

You do have a local engineering club at Lincoln, The Lincoln Model Engineering Society.

If you google them and go to their website you can find more information, I had a quick look and they have 1/3rd of a mile of track. They have a video section on the website which includes some footage of loco,s running at the track which should interest your son.

It would certainly be good if he can join as a junior member, an engineering club is an ideal starting point for him.

Ron

[Rob McSweeneyParticipant @robmcsweeney81205]

May I suggest a couple of books, both of which are readily available secondhand on ebay for not a lot of money.

The Amateur's Workshop, Ian Bradley – this will give you both a valuable oversight of what is required.

An Introduction to Benchwork, Stan Bray – your son can launch himself straight into this one, which will teach essential skills with hand tools.

On skill I would suggest he should learn early on is silver soldering (which may also be of benefit for your craft work)

A gas cannister blowtorch, some solder and flux and a suitable surface to work on will cost you £40-50 to get started, and will open up a lot of possibilities .

Once car boot sales are open again, set your son to work gathering a comprehensive set of spanners, hammers and other useful hand tools.

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Posted by Ron Laden on 15/02/2021 18:19:10:

Hi Vivienne

You do have a local engineering club at Lincoln, The Lincoln Model Engineering Society.

If you google them and go to their website you can find more information, I had a quick look and they have 1/3rd of a mile of track. They have a video section on the website which includes some footage of loco,s running at the track which should interest your son.

It would certainly be good if he can join as a junior member, an engineering club is an ideal starting point for him.

Ron

Hi Vivieene

I went back and checked the Lincoln Society website and some good news they do allow youngsters and have a Junior membership.

Ron

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

I am a reasonably affluent pensioner, good pension, no mortgage, no more family financial commitments etc. and I still find back-shed engineering a 'rich man's hobby' and prices seem to be going up all the time. For someone who wants to, understandably, support their child in pursuing an interest without, say, a grandfather with a wealth of knowledge and lifetime's collection of tools and equipment, is going to prove expensive whatever the starting point.

I was 27 years old when I managed to buy our first terrace, with a spare upstairs room for a workshop, and I took out a bank loan to fulfil a dream to buy a new Myford with a chuck and a set of cutting tools only to find how limited it was. I had to build a bench, acquire files, drills, castings to make something with and all this while paying the bills and all life's other expenses. Obviously, I am not alone in this and other people will have similarly struggled too in their younger days.

So for a young Mum wanting to support their child I would suggest maybe channelling the young lad's enthusiasm to maybe the junior section of a modelling engineering club, or a smaller gauge model railway. If the lad eventually gains reasonable employment he will be able to make his own choices on what to spend his spare income on but I think he will find like the rest of us it's a never ending story. I wish the lad and his mother well for the future and just one last point, if they are going to be buying used machines and tools etc., beware and take advice because there is so much junk out there and always someone willing to take advantage of enthusiastic ignorance to off-load it.

[Dr. MC BlackParticipant @dr-mcblack73214]

I hope that the following comments will prove useful (and that NOT too many other subscribers will disagree with them!).

Firstly, a chum who used to teach Woodwork advised that Junior Hacksaws were appropriate for children to cut both metal and wood. Apparently, some of his older colleagues disagreed about using a Junior Hacksaw to cut wood – but it worked in his classes.

Secondly, do you have either Freecycle or Freegle in your area? During the lockdown, people may be sorting out old tools and be willing to donate hand tools to a keen youngster. Some may need a little work to de-rust or sharpen but many old tools are of a quality not available today.

I recall seeing on a website an illustrated book with plans for a simple engine. It was written by a teacher who used the plans with a class to build the machine over a school year. Another reader may be able to identify the book from what I have remembered.

Finally, I suggest that the first thing to buy should be GOGGLES – the sort with an elastic strap around the back of the head.

With best wishes.

MC Black

[Antony PriceParticipant @antonyprice56876]

Hi Vivienne Please see my private message which I've just sent to you

Tony

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

Above all else get him along to a model engineering society so they can help him with some hands on stuff!

Running a Wilesco traction engine or similar may help keep the bug alive and start off some skills.

[Dr_GMJNParticipant @dr_gmjn]

How about buying him an old stationary steam engine off EBay, and getting him to strip it down and re-build it?

There are some videos on this type of process by Keith Appleton on YouTube.

All the machining would be done already, and he'd probably learn a lot just from the dismantling, cleaning/painting and re-building process. It would be way cheaper than a new pre-machined Stuart Models kit.

If it's a "non-runner", a bit of diagnostics – with the help of forum members on here, or a local club – would be educational. I know that the engines I'm suggesting are potentially not exactly cheap even in decrepit condition, but at the end of the process he might even be able to sell it and make a bit of money?

Re. machine tools – my son is 13 now, and has done a little bit of simple machining over the past 12 months or so, but there's no way he could do it without close and constant supervision. He needs to get on a course specifically suited to this kind of thing. Are there any University Technical Colleges local to you? He can apply to go there form year 9, and they are aimed at kids who want to go on to a career in technology based industries.

I'd echo that it's not a cheap hobby, and that it also requires a hell of a lot of figuring out, asking questions, patience and dedication. However, the satisfaction of completing a model is proportional to what you have to put in.

[Tom SheppardParticipant @tomsheppard60052]

Given a piece of tinplate, a drill and a soldering iron, you can fold up a simple boat. Find a coil of brake pipe to make a coil with two ends like a hairpin . The coil sits in the middle of the boat and the ends poke out through holes drilled in the stern , just below the waterline. Use a bottle top and some meths soaked cotton wool to heat the coil. This makes the simplest of steam driven boats . A Myford will come in at a good thousand pounds these days but a Chinese mini lathe will be around half of that new and £300-350 used. Spend a few months learning how to make it work well and by then, your son will have amassed enough engineering understanding in his head and hands to be able to make a wobbler engine which can be run on air at first until the skills are acquired to make a boiler. Mamod engines can be found for around £25 in rough but functional condition. Probably the very best present a steam enthusiast could receive at a young age.

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