Spare Wheel – Car

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Can anyone explain this please.  I have a new Dacia Sandero Expression. I ordered a spare wheel with the car. It came with a wheel, jack etc – All good.

Today a puncture, nail in the tread – fitted spare wheel which has a label 80 Kph Max – OK. But look at the photos, spare wheel tyre is same size and speed rating to the other 4 tyres but different manufacture.

1/  why a different manufacturer

2/ why a different hub

3/ legislation says you can’t mix tyres on same axle.

Anyone care to comment please?

 

[jim1956Participant @jim1956]

Been that way on every car my wife and I have owned since 2016.
Manufacturers don’t supply spare wheels as standard to save space and weight.
I hate those foam injectors they supply instead and always ask for a spare wheel.
Since the spare wheels, usually restricted speed space savers, don’t come with the car as standard they’re often a totally different spec to the normal equipment.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

I think the 80kph limit is probably spurious as it is a standard tyre for your car. Probably a standard part for other models or trim levels may have different tyre sizes thus the speep limit would apply to them. Different wheel (steel is to save cost. Mixing type types on one axle refers to construction e.g. radial or cross ply (not very common). Different makes  / tread patterns are not recommended but not a de-facto offence. BUT 27 a.  of the construction and use regulations says “the tyre is unsuitable having regard to the use to which the motor vehicle or trailer is being put or to the types of tyres fitted to its other wheels;” so a court could find a particular combination in breach, probably based on the evidence of a expert witness.

Not supplying spare wheels as standard saves weight and thus improves reported fuel consumption.

Robert.

[jim1956]

 

On jim1956 Said:

Been that way on every car my wife and I have owned since 2016.
Manufacturers don’t supply spare wheels as standard to save space and weight.
I hate those foam injectors they supply instead and always ask for a spare wheel.
Since the spare wheels, usually restricted speed space savers, don’t come with the car as standard they’re often a totally different spec to the normal equipment.

Yes. If you order a spare it’s often on a space saver wheel or a generic steel rather than the alloys on the car. Any suitable size tyre will be fitted.
I paid extra to have a spare and they told me that if you do that you don’t get the tyre inflator supplied as standard. I insisted on both and they said no problem and found me an inflator! 😆

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I got a spare for my Fiesta identical to the other factory issue ones – however when in the wheel bay the cover board doesn’t quite sit flat. I think this should have become obvious in the initial testing so if I was on the board of directors I would be sacking a whole raft of people who signed off the design and qualification.

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

Always baffled me why they are called ‘space savers’ because they provide the same amount of space to stow your punctured tyre in which the supposed space saver is stowed.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

You may not be out of the woods ! A steel wheel will often have a different stud or bolt to fit it, ! Noel.

[Dod MoleParticipant @georgeclarihew]

Driven company motors and owned a car since 1970, company mileage between 500 to 1000 miles a week, car mileage around 10,000 miles annually.

In that time I have had exactly 3 punctures which leads me to wonder if a spare wheel or even a can of gunk and a compressor is really worth carrying.

[D.A.GodleyParticipant @d-a-godley]

Some years back , before retirement, I enjoyed a couple or so years working for a well known Motoring Service taking prestige breakdown calls .

To immerse us in the culture , one of the jolly’s was a few days attendance at the Porsche centre .

One of the first things our Hosts asked the attendees was , what is the first thing you think of when the word Porsche is mentioned.  When it came time for me to answer, I said , it has no spare wheel ! , and I would never buy any car that does not have one .

As is stated , it is rare now for manufacturers to fit them , but there are always cars written off , or scrapped, which have the same spec wheel which I am sure would be cheaper than purchasing from the dealers , I don’t care for the foam system , and why rely on a space saver when a genuine replacement is available? , but then I remember my spare sitting on the running board , deep joy .

 

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

I’m on my second Sandero (first was written off while the lad was driving it, by a lady who didn’t stop at the roundabout he was turning right at). Both have had full sized, full rated, spare wheels. I need to flog the spare, jack and spanner that I recovered from the first car.

Having once punctured the sidewall of a (Peugeot 405) tyre against a granite kerb stone and once seen a couple of lads trying to inflate a shredded Audi tyre, I’m not sure that the weight saving of gloop and a cheap pump is worth trading for the security of a spare wheel.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Many Porsches don’t have spare wheels because there is no space big enough to put the massive wheel you removed. Early Audi TTs and FWD Beetles suffer this too; they won’t fit through the tiny boot opening so it has to go on the passenger seat.

Original Volvo XC90s(the Range Rover equivalent!) have the space-saver spare slung under the boot in a cage. But the actual wheels don’t fit in the cage, so Volvo supply a bag for it so that it doesn’t make the boot dirty. The version with the factory bodykit doesn’t have the cage because the fancy dual exit exhaust runs through that space.

BMW Minis don’t have enough length between the back seat and rear of the car for even a suitable space-saver to lie flat. So they don’t have one.

Mercedes supply steel spares, but the mating surface is thinner than the stock alloys so you have to use the supplied shorter bolts. Not doing this will damage the hubs and handbrake mechanism if you do it on the back.

You’re not legally allowed to fit different size or type tyres across an axle, so space-savers are visibly different, often painted a bright colour and are plastered with stickers that emphasize that they are for temporary use at limited speeds. Whether this is legal is a good question.

 

Many recovery providers won’t recover a flat tyre until the supplied sealant has been used, no matter if the cause is an obvious gash in the sidewall. It makes a lovely mess, and you have to add the cost of another can to getting the car back on the road.

 

Lots of car drivers have trained themselves to ignore warning lights, so drive on runflats until the tyre is shredded. That’s assuming that they paid the extra for runflats when they last replaced the tyres….

 

The root cause of all these problems is the modern insistence on large diameter wheels, even on small cars; it’s not uncommon to find a super-mini on at least 16″ diameter wheels, plus the sidewall height. Ultra-lowprofile tyres on soft alloy wheels with the mounting face close to the outside edge are all easily damaged compared to older designs.

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

Answer to your question: 3/ legislation says you can’t mix tyres on same axle.

Different tyres have different tread patterns and steering, braking characteristics. Not so bad on the rear wheels but on the front wheels may cause the car to turn to one side when braking.

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

I’ve got a couple of Volvo’s (V70 and XC60), both have no spare.

Not having a spare tyre used to bother me, but in the last 11 years not had a single puncture and don’t have the further headache of an old mismatched tyre etc.

I just carry those screw in type temporary plugs and “tyre strings” (glue coated string). Not had to use these on my cars, but used them on other vehicles with no issues.

 

The foam stuff only has a life of 5 years. This also scraps the tyre, one thing the temporary fixes won’t do!

 

Jimb

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Easy to see you guys dont drive on the “roads” around here !

One flat in three years ??, wishful thinking !

My Hiace came with a proper spare wheel, as did my previous two vans. I would NEVER go anywhere without a spare.

Just to be sure, to be sure, as they say around here.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

In 36 years of driving, having averaged about 25,000miles p/a, I’ve only had to do one wheel change on my own car, and 5 on the work truck. I’ve done hundreds for other people while working for a recovery company. I still prefer to have some sort of spare wheel, as it’s the most efficient way of staying mobile. Yes, I do check that the tyre is in good condition, inflated and the tools work. Experience has proved to me that is unusual.

[Paul Lousick]

On Paul Lousick Said:

Answer to your question: 3/ legislation says you can’t mix tyres on same axle.

Different tyres have different tread patterns and steering, braking characteristics. Not so bad on the rear wheels but on the front wheels may cause the car to turn to one side when braking.

the mix refers to cross ply and radials on the same axle.

there are certain makes and models of tyre that the (tyre)manufacturer says must be fitted in pairs.

 

[Dave WoottonParticipant @davewootton]

My car has a space saver spare wheel and jacking kit, supplied by the manufacturer as an extra when new ( 2017 Skoda Octavia est) ,but it is a smaller overall diameter to the other alloy wheels on the car, which seems very odd to me as it will have a  different rolling radius. I checked it with a main dealer (not the one I bought it from) and they confirmed it is the correct spare for the car and is still supplied with new cars having the same size 15″ wheels, and stated that it is allowed only for driving to a place of safety or repair at reduced speed. The independent garage where I get it serviced agreed and said a lot of spares supplied are the same just for emergency use, seems very odd to me, I’m glad to have a spare but have a few reservations about using it, I think if I had a front tyre go it would be worth changing a rear to the front and put the space saver on the back. This discussion has prompted me to go and see if a full size spare would fit in the wheel well just for peace of mind.

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

“the mix refers to cross ply and radials on the same axle”   Where can you buy cross ply tyres now days ? Cross-plies were largely replaced by radials in the 1960s and 1970s,

There are lots of information that states that you should avoid mixing different tyre brands and different tread patterns. There are rare exceptions for approved mixed-tyre fittings, but in general, manufacturers do not recommend tyre mixing at all.

[VicParticipant @vic]

I’ve seen a few space savers like this. One of mine was clearly marked with the maximum speed.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Some useful notes about SpaceSavers here:

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/tyres/space-saver-tyre-guide-know-before-you-buy/

Unfortunately interspersed with a lot of advertising.

MichaelG.

.

P.S. __ the 2014 ‘Grand Vitara’ that I bought yesterday has its full-size spare mounted on the back door … that was an important part of my purchasing decision.

.

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Several years ago I read about a motorist being prosecuted for using a spacesaver tyre, though I don’t know the final outcome; they may have accepted an out of court settlement or challenged it.

They were driving a kit car and had a puncture, so replaced the flat with a spacesaver.
The car was built around a single donor vehicle, I seem to recall a BMW which was originally supplied with a space saver, so the kit car builder carried that as a spare.
They were adhering to the reduced speed limit for the tyre, but were prosecuted, or issued a penalty, for having two different widths of tyres on the same car.
The argument by the police was that although the spacesaver was supplied with the donor, and could be fitted and driven to that legally, it was only type approved for exactly that model, which rendered its use on a kit car illegal.

Also worth considering is adding a pre-puncture tyre sealant, Goop, Slime, Puncturesafe for example, but there are many others, some used and supplied commercially; some are claimed to aid dynamic wheel balance.

Bill

[Robert Atkinson 2]

On Robert Atkinson 2 Said:

I think the 80kph limit is probably spurious as it is a standard tyre for your car. …

Robert.

Belt and braces precaution is my guess.   Although my spare has the same tyre as the road-wheels, they’re mounted on alloys whilst the spare is on a steel hub.    At low speed the difference is probably trivial, but the imbalance might cause trouble cornering on a slippery road.

Young chap who crashed into a nearby bridge abutment a few years ago died because his identical front tyres where incorrectly inflated,  one far too high, the other far too low.   The vehicle was otherwise entirely road-worthy, but the skid marks suggested 50mph on a 40mph bend, AND it had been raining, AND the tyres were unbalanced, AND the road curves slightly under a railway line.   Swiss-cheese.

Also, what’s meant by a spare tyre seems to have changed meaning.

• In the good old days the spare was identical to the road-wheel, and could be substituted.   The spares on off-road vehicles are still of this type.
• For ordinary motoring, the spare has morphed into a ‘get you home’ device.
  • Squirty goo inflator – clearly temporary, slow-speed only, and only good for smallish punctures
  • Thin tyre – temporary wheel that can replace a seriously damaged tyre and be driven a bit faster, or cope with a full load
  • Full size tyre – better than a thin tyre, long-range, but not necessarily intended to be permanent, unless the whole spare is a one-for-one road-wheel replacement

A major downside of spare wheels is that many motorists can’t change them!  They don’t know where to put the jack, or how to lift the car safely, and even if they get that far are liable to find they aren’t strong enough to get the nuts off with the short handled wrench provided.  Then they have to get past the security nuts!  Breakdown recovery and aerosol goo are good options for these folk.   And senior statesmen discovering after a decade of armchair engineering that they are no longer strong enough to get a wheel off in a roadside blizzard!

Dave

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

I wonder how many people got wiped off the side of their cars on motorways while changing tyres?

I do miss having a proper spare but at least with tyre pressure sensors you get warning even before the handling changes. I run my Tesla with the TPMS displayed – but then I have had 4 punctures in it, all slow enough to limp somewhere. They are foam lined so goop no good but I have most of my farm kit tyres filled with that stuff.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

If you use the gloop then getting the puncture fixed costs an arm and a leg as they have to clean it all off, and how do they find where it was leaking. Even getting a new tyre they have to clean it, at least that’s what they told my sister in law.

Whilst I agree that punctures are rare, I still want a spare wheel, preferably a full size proper one as if you’re in the middle of nowhere in the early hours and you manage to shred a tyre you’re snookered otherwise.

[pgk pgk]

On pgk pgk Said:

I wonder how many people got wiped off the side of their cars on motorways while changing tyres?

Motorways are very dangerous places to be when you’re stationary. You have to consider the risk of changing the wheel compared to waiting an unknown amount of time for a truck to move the car. Personally, I’d change the wheel on my car because I know the spare and the necessary tools are in good condition and I can be gone very quickly.

We shouldn’t have to mention just how stupid waiting in the car is, but there are lots of people who do just that.

Professionally, our policy was to load the car and look at it in a safe place.

[Author]

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