Sourcing

[Brainsparks30Participant @brainsparks30]

[Brainsparks30Participant @brainsparks30]

Don't know where to start.

Are there scrap yards for bits?

Any tips for sourcing useful bits of metals for cheap or free?

[Jim NicParticipant @jimnic]

I would be very wary of cheap or free bits of metal. For use on our hobby machines free cutting metals are the best materials to start with then harder and tougher types can be utilisd when experience is built up.

Regardless of experience and machine it is always best to know what metal you are dealing with, there are some very tough machining resistant steels about.

Best, in my opinion, to bite the bullet and purchase known materials from known sources.

Jim

[JonParticipant @jon]

Same here you want to know what you are using.

Then wonder why you cannot get a finish on a part or cannot machine it.

Avoid the metal centres they rip small users off.
I get a lot off ebay but build in the postage, oh and prices risen yet again.

[HughEParticipant @hughe]

Hi Brian,

+1 for Jon and Nick's suggestions. I have purchased from Noggin End metals and others that advertise in MEW and have had never had a bad product. I use a small company in Ringwood who advertise on e-bay and pickup to save postage. As you don't give a location in your profile it's hard to advise you of one local to you.

Hugh

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Some let you in to mooch about, others turf you out

It's just a case of walk in and ask

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Posted by Jim Nic on 11/12/2018 21:28:29:

I would be very wary of cheap or free bits of metal. For use on our hobby machines free cutting metals are the best materials to start with then harder and tougher types can be utilisd when experience is built up.

Regardless of experience and machine it is always best to know what metal you are dealing with, there are some very tough machining resistant steels about.

Best, in my opinion, to bite the bullet and purchase known materials from known sources.

Jim

Reasonable assumption however can you ever be really sure what you are getting? Even if the supplier gives you a copy certificate unless the plate or bar is stamped you still can't be 100% sure! Much better chance granted. I have a friend who produces several 1000 components a week in his works and orders material from a major metal merchant by the ton. He finds he gets variation these days within bars, not even at bar ends but in the middle! Where in the world the stockholder gets his metal from can make a difference to the quality even when it's certified.

Paul.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

If you can join your local model engineering club they often have someone selling off odd bits or can possibly combine to buy a long length of common sizes. If you want "for cheap" you will have to go to the USA as things in the are only available "cheaply" or "for little cost".

[Iain DownsParticipant @iaindowns78295]

I strongly advise against going to your local scrap year and picking up bits of metal – unless you really know what you are doing.

I happily came back with £14 or so of metal at £200/ton (scrap price of steel – immensely cheaper than new stuff) and it's done me more harm than good overall.

I turned a slice of big RSJ into a press which was the good bit and am using a bit of thick plate as an occasional anvil, but the rest of it is nearly unworkable with my tools, and an attempt to trim up a large cylinder of steel broke my plastic lathe gears. I'll grant you that there was a bit of thumble fingers involved, but it's very caveat emptor.

I've bought quite a few small bits from eBay and generally been pleased. Make sure that you know what the specification of the metal is though.

Iain

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

If you go to the scrap yard, take a file, and a magnet. File to make sure that what ever you pick up is machinable. The magnet will help sort out bits of stainless. I'v just made arrangments to get metal scraps from one of our local engineering firms, I know what they use in the way of steel.

Ian S C

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

I've since moved away (sadly) but I used to live near a company that had long runs of items made from free cutting MS on automatic machines.

Autos always leave a foot or so bar that isused for feeding and holding so is not used to produce parts.

The company was happy for individuals to help themselves from the scrap bins because the scrap value was minimal and the bins had to be rented, it was cheaper to allow people to help themselves.

There may be such a company near to you and it costs nothing to ask.

Brian

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

Pop you town/county up on location. I am in the west midlands and have a good choice of suppliers willing to sell on a cash basis at right money. I tend to buy whole lengths at times for little more than some hobby suppliers want for a small quantity.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Easier to say what to avoid than to identify sources of cheap metal that's worth having! DIY Store metal is not only expensive, it machines badly – apart from the Brass. Modern manufacturing often uses alloys chosen for properties other than machineability, so turning scrap on a lathe can be utterly miserable. Or it might be wonderful. As a begineer this uncertainty caused me severe difficulties. Had a bought a crap lathe? Had I bought crap tools? Was I setting the rpm wrong? Was the depth of cut or the feed-rate wrong?

I strongly recommend learning to use a lathe with known materials. It's worth finding an online or local supplier and investing some moderately serious dosh on some mild-steel, some free-turning mild steel, some brass, and an Aluminium alloy intended for machining. (Pure Aluminium and many alloys are gummy.)

Once you know how the real thing behaves it's much easier to tell if a bit of scrap is causing problems. Later, once you know what to expect, even a little experience makes it much less risky to approach a scrapyard or other source of unknown metal. Otherwise you can waste a lot of time struggling with bad metal – you can guess how I know!

How approachable your local scrappies and manufacturers are seems to vary wildly. My local scrapyards are all surrounded by barbed wire and are much more interested in buying metal than selling it. Not much manufacturing where I live, and the two firms I approached both refused. I wasn't surprised – my employer operated a policy whereby it was a zero-tolerance sacking offence for employees to take scrap. The reason is that it makes it easier to prove theft: it's not unknown for scallywags to "accidentally" convert new stock into scrap for the purpose of nicking it. When caught with a boot full of metal, the zero-tolerance policy makes it no defence to claim 'foreman said it was OK in 1973'

But it's worth enquiring – if you don't ask you won't get.

90% of what I do is done with new metal…

Dave

 

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 13/12/2018 10:22:52

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Paul Kemp on 11/12/2018 23:38:53:

Posted by Jim Nic on 11/12/2018 21:28:29:

…

… however can you ever be really sure what you are getting? Even if the supplier gives you a copy certificate unless the plate or bar is stamped you still can't be 100% sure!

…

You can never be 100% sure about anything. Aerospace and Defence both put far more effort into getting the specified product and even they get caught sometimes. There was a major counterfeit aircraft parts scandal a few years back in the US where dud parts were found fitted to Air Force One.

By volume most counterfeit products are made in China – at the moment. But it's a world-wide problem. Counterfeiting tends to be associated with developing countries where regulation is slack and people prepared to take risks, and a quick buck is more tempting than building reputation : before about 1920 the USA was a major offender, Belgium and Birmingham(UK) once had bad reputations, Germany, Taiwan, Russia, Japan and many others. What all these countries have found is that counterfeiting is poor economics – you make more money by selling decent stuff than cheap suspicious. What happens over time is that economies tend to move up-market. It doesn't eliminate counterfeiting because there's always somewhere else making a start in manufacturing.

Bad though they are for making the junk in the first place it's too easy to blame China. Making counterfeit parts isn't very profitable. The big money is made by the people who enable these products to enter the local supply chain. Criminals. Think horse-meat in lasagne, not a chinaman in sight, and no-one went to jail…

The UK's latest financial scandal should probably be of more concern to forum members. After a 3 year battle to get information out of the industry a report has just been issued showing that overcharging reduces the value of some UK pensions by up to a third, though 20% seems more typical. It is almost impossible for individuals to find out what charges they are paying, but it appears that the industry has set up a multi-layered service management structure where each player takes a cut on every transaction. The extra complexity and costs do not appear to be justified. Consequently UK pensions are far more expensive than the same schemes in, for example, Holland. As the scale of the problem is much bigger than PPI, I expect every call-centre between Salford and Manilla will ringing me up offering help for the next 20 years. And I might well need it.

Dave

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