Source of brass treblet tubing as used for making a whistle.

[GreensandsParticipant @greensands]

Following upon the recommendations of LBSC and others can anyone suggest a source of brass treblet tubing as used for making a locomotive steam whistle in sizes typically from 7/16" to 5/8" diameter.

[GreensandsParticipant @greensands]

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

GLR Kennions – look for Brass tube fine series – I suspect that is what you are looking for

[Bill DawesParticipant @billdawes]

Think I got mine from Macc Models, they do a good range of wall thicknesses and diameter.

Bill D.

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

My Simplex has a whistle made from standard15mm copper pipe from a plumber's suppliers. Based on LBSC's design, works fine.

[GreensandsParticipant @greensands]

Have just discovered that Macc Models can supply a 5/8" dia x 4.75" Lg fully made whistle complete with fittings for £15.24 which seems to be remarkedly good value for money. At that price I doubt if it is even worth considering going to the bother of making one up.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

I got mine at local model railway shop, very thin wall. There was an article on making whistles in ME a bit back by Bob Bramson? which was very good. I've probably got a copy somewhere

Edited By duncan webster on 06/04/2022 20:43:00

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

The thinnest wall brass tube that I could find from local suppliers was 0.8mm. The tube that I used to make my whistles was bought on ebay from China and is 0.5mm thick.

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

I found an old trumpet for 50 centimes at a car boot that had suffered damage when it had been driven over by a car. There was enough straight section for a couple of LBSC whistles. Have a look for wind instrument makers / repairs ??

Bob

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Please forgive the digression :

Curious to know a little more about Steam Whistles, I’ve just stumbled across this:

**LINK**

http://www.john-tom.com/MyPlans/Steam%20Engines/ModelEngineerSteamWhistle1952.pdf

The spirit-burner ( “ poison-gas plant  “ ) shown …

The mind boggled … but I’ve now discovered this reference:

http://ibls.org/mediawiki/index.php/Alcohol_Burner_for_Live_Steamers

MichaelG.

.

Edited the quoute to remove the  ####### auto-smiley

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 07/04/2022 08:15:01

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

Michael,

A steam calliope is one of the projects on my bucket list. The whistles are simple to fabricate but have to make a separate valve for each one. Only problem is that I can't play a musical instrument.

Paul

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Albion alloys make about every size.

http://www.Albionalloys.com

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

In the 40's and 50's LBSC published designs for steam toys so that people could make them in time for Christmas.

I have not seen this one before (although I have the copy of ME) but there was a steam car, a steam crane, a fire engine and a steam hammer – if not others.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by Paul Lousick on 07/04/2022 09:16:44:

Michael,

A steam calliope is one of the projects on my bucket list. The whistles are simple to fabricate but have to make a separate valve for each one. Only problem is that I can't play a musical instrument.

Paul

Well a calliope isn't musical, so no problem

[Bill Davies 2Participant @billdavies2]

Unless it is… Calliope

Choose your muse!

[GreensandsParticipant @greensands]

Hi – I am not having much luck making up a whistle from 15mm o/d copper tubing, the last attempt being ruined during the final brazing process which has made me query the need to use silver solder with its attendant risks of distortion which is what has just happen with me. Given that it will be a steam operated whistle is it essential to use silver solder for this operation or are there other methods of available? All suggestions most welcomed.

[Richard S2Participant @richards2]

I have found K&S range to be of good quality tubing for many years. Thin wall of 0.014". Sizing enables slide fit in next size up.

A link for you to peruse- TUBING. Presume you are in UK?.

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

I think that copper would absorb much of the "chime" from the whistle. As for silver solder, use the smallest diameter rod possible – you only need a smidge of solder.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

I don't really understand about the distortion being blamed on the silver solder, I do quite a bit of silver soldering and have not come across this. Your choice of material may be part of your problem as straight after soldering it would be fully annealed and given the gauge and the cut out I would imagine it would be prone to be easily damaged.

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

My whistle material is brass and are made by mounting the tube in a jig and milling the cut-out. (copper is too soft and will not "ring" like hard brass). Then silver soldering a disc into the tube using 45% silver solder which comes in 1.5mm dia sticks and seems to flow better than the normal plummers grade. The whistle base is soft soldered (the contact area is large and melts at a lower temperature).  The cut-out extends below the disk to prevent the silver solder running all of the way around and closing off the gap for steam flow.  The base extension supports the tube and compensates for the whistle mouth cut-out.

 

Edited By Paul Lousick on 18/04/2022 01:15:19

[GreensandsParticipant @greensands]

Paul – I have noted you method of manufacture and have ordered up some 19/32 dia brass tube for the next attempt. Any thoughts on using Comsol high temperature soft solder as a possible alternative to silver soldering the disc in place?

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

I can't imagine ordinary soft solder being inadequate for a whistle fed via pipe from a model boiler. As for copper being too soft to give a good note, silver-soldered brass will be little different after silver soldering. In any event, a human mouth can produce a fairly piercing note despite being made of rather soft material.

Also, a chime note is produced by a whistle with two or more resonant chambers, not by the material of construction.

Edited By Clive Brown 1 on 18/04/2022 18:08:10

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

I only used hard and soft solders in my whistle construction because of the different melting temperatures and did not want to re-melt the disk when I soldered the base.

Whistles can be made from many materials. eg. Children's wooden whistles make a loud but dull sound and do not have the timbre of one made from thin brass.

It is difficult to get a good, deep sound from a model whistle. Sound cannot be scaled down. The pitch of the sound is dependent on the length of the whistle and the volume is dependent on its diameter. The height of the mouth cut-out is dependent on the steam pressure for the whistle to resonate properly.

My whistle has a sweet spot and sounds good at 70-80 psi but wheezes when the pressure is greater. (not sure if I should enlarge the mouth opening. Easy to make larger but not to make smaller if not needed).

My other problem is that I get condensation in the supply fittings to the whistle and have to purge it before I get a clear sound.

Youtube video of my whistles: **LINK**

The 5-chime whistle has 12mm and 16mm dia tubes of fixed length and the Lunkenheimer has a 38mm bell which is height adjustable and can be tuned to the steam supply.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Those who want to deep note whistle and like to experiment might try a Hemholtz Resonator. LBSC described one, but I have no reference to it. It's the same as blowing across the top of a bottle, or the frequency tuning used on some loudspeakers. A chap at work was into speakers and found the formula in a book. He claimed it was all black magic and could not be derived from first principles. I like a challenge like that, it isn't actually difficult. The air in the tube is treated as a fixed mass, and the air in the big volume as a spring. Problem applying this to steam is what temperature is it, and is it all steam or a mixture. Either some very clever Computerised Fluid Dynamics, or trial and error

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by duncan webster on 19/04/2022 11:33:10:

Those who want to deep note whistle and like to experiment might try a Hemholtz Resonator. …

Hemholtz might explain your recent Arduino failure. I noticed this in the Wikipedia article:

Helmholtz resonance is one of the principles behind the way piezoelectric buzzers work: a piezoelectric disc acts as the excitation source, but it relies on the acoustic cavity resonance to produce an audible sound.

Dave

[Author]

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